Yea I hope he's trolling. You can't just across the table say that the riddles, unds, ATP's, etc produce poor pilots. If they were that bad.....Fill in the blank....1500 hours banner towing, or 1500 hours teaching instrument and commercial students at a "puppy mill"?? I'll take the cfi thank you.

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I'm not getting the backlash for low time guys and whether they fly for Delta or not.

Low time guys are hired at regionals every day and aren't we flying the same passengers around?

What's the difference really between coming to EDV or to Delta?

Isn't it the same job? Do you need more experience for the magic corn cob to be inserted?

Thanks for that!

That would be nice.. The shuttle times are horrendous

However, it is still better than nothing though.

I'm sure it's been answered several times, but when do you all vote on the new TA?

Next month

I'm serious. There's a world of skills, knowledge, and nuance that can only be picked up through experience, beyond the basic licenses. They only give someone a starting point from which to half-safely stumble their way down onto the runway as they begin their journey of figuring out what's what.

That a beginner's first job in an industry like this would be to teach others, is a very bizarre notion. But due to the market forces, it's the reality for most people. I was one of them, and I had no business being around my first couple of students (and I dare say I don't speak just for myself). I grant you it's great experience for the CFI, but it's a disservice to the student. Hell, at 1500 hours, when most punch out for the regionals, is when I was just starting to be actually competent.

What would you think if it were proposed that we start letting 300 hour First Officers become LCA's and give OE? After all, they've been trained in all the procedures, so what's the problem? Well that's exactly the situation with primary/comm/CFI instruction, and this would be for a much narrower slice in the aviation field.

It's a problem, but I don't have a solution. A naive one would be to increase the required hours for a CFI license to a certain amount, but that would instantly shut down most flight instruction in the country. Flight instructing needs to get paid 200 grand so as to make it a viable choice to experienced people who actually want to do it, and not be a quasi-mandatory stepping stone for bachelors. Where would the money come from? I don't know.

Well I hope this new email from the union puts to rest this notion of a "pay cut" everyone is so worried about.

With their charts the most any pilot has to credit over 75 is 3.53 hours a month to make as much as you would with the bonus system.

Think about that......

With the bonus system you don't get any extra for your work after that 3.53 hours, but using hourly rates every hour you credit over that 3.53 is the additional in hourly rate in your pocket also.

My friend, this has been very clear since day 1 when the email came out. The ones you are trying to make understand either don’t get it, or just don’t want to admit this TA is a good thing for the group as a whole. I applaud your effort, but pages of explanation haven’t changed their minds, so I doubt one more email or post will.

It obviously benefits the senior guys more, as it should, since they lost the most in the BK pay cut.

After it passes, and they see the “proof in the pudding” when their paychecks are larger with very little time worked over 78 hours, perhaps the light will come on. Or not. Only time will tell...


I heard from one of our ALPA reps that during the initial explanation day, when ALPA showed up at each base to answer questions, exactly one single FO showed up in ATL. That’s pretty pathetic, for something so big, that no one really cared to come discuss it with those who worked to obtain it for us.

Filler ...