I dont think its the instructors because i work with a lot of them and they are damn good. im curious how much the ftd / sim sessions have been reduced since before aqp for upgrades and new hire fo. i heard that the captain aqp that has been around for a little over a year had greatly reduced ground and sim sessions. that combined with guys upgrading at 1000 hours and i can see why we have the failures.

 

Wow, a 60% upgrade failure rate if thats accurate, is pretty high.....

Does anyone know of the backrounds of the folks that are busting? Mainly folks that were young CFI's 2 years ago?....If thats the case I can see the failure rate being a bit higher than normal, maybe?

I'm fortunate enough to be joining your ranks in a Feb class, so i'm not even on property yet, but I've noticed a few guys here and there being awarded a CA upgrade right out of newhire class.

I come from two previous 121 operations plus 135/corporate/contract flying and I dont believe i've encountered a bust rate that high in the other training programs I have been a part of.....If presented with the opportunity to upgrade pretty quickly I would more than likely go for it to be able to hang close to home in ATL, but a high bust rate does make one take a pause for a second a wonder why?.....

 

I would argue that people with CFI experience have an advantage honestly...

They are pairing initial upgrade LOE’s with initial FO LOE’s. On first learning that i would be paired with a new hire I was a little annoyed to be honest.

..but as a new CA on the line you will be paired with fresh-off-OE FO’s. Obviously in that environment you will need to be a mentor of sorts. This will cause distractions and is sure to lead to errors. If you can’t handle them in the sim you will have issues on the line.

That all being said I found upgrade to be challenging but not difficult (if that makes sense). If you’re paying attention and being an active member of the team from the right seat you will be alright.

 

Even if someone came from CFI’ing hopefully they were paying attention and learned something while they were in the right seat for 2 years. I know I did and I didn’t have to ask 1000 questions. It was just observing different things. I had a guy on the jumpseat who had recurrent and he and the CA failed. The CA was a new upgrade and it was like everyone else said. Not communicating with anyone. It’s almost like the CA got tunnel vision and shut everyone out.

 

Well the whole process is super condensed these days. Maybe too much. It really puts a lot on the pilots to self study. If you know your flows and emergency, non normal procedures, or at least where to find them it makes CRM possible when dealing with the issue at hand. So much of an initial LOE is situational awareness and decision making.

 

The only thing VESS has the keys to are his hat LOL . Vess let me know how that trip with HS goes.

 

I couldn’t believe the 60% number myself, so I shot a note to my pal on the recruitment team. He said he emailed the director of training who said the number is less than 8%. Can we shut this topic down now?

On a side note, I just saw that Meijer has a sale on tin foil in case you guys need to make some new hats.

 

Thanks for checking. I could imagine that a fair number have
One item that would needs to be redone on an LOE. That’s not an unsat. Miss a climb check call until fl200 that’s a redo on that one item I’m pretty sure.

 

Since you know the guy you gotta give me the scoop man, should I just bring my beater or get out the nice hat?

 

best advice I can give you is to call in sick. you will thank me. or at least swap it out or trade it at the very least.