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I'd also add, that when you reach 1,000 of 121 SIC time, doesn't really mean that your automatically prepared and ready to upgrade. Good idea to see each season a few times and get a few years under your belt first...I know for sure I wasnt ready to upgrade at 1,000 121 time.....but maybe im just slower than most :eek:.....

Its outside the contract and if there's a time when this company goes the other way, promises from scheduling aren't always honored by the company, and the union won't get it for you because they can't.

There's three phases of "lets make a deal pilots". 1. Euphoria, they found a way to work the system and it's like a little zip of money or time off in their pocket. 2. Addict, out of control wheeling and dealing, even their schedule is fungible, where they trade up and up and someone notices they're getting honked by a junior pilot or a pilot not using FLICA so they complain 3. Depression and anger, now the company won't make deals and can't figure out why, the job sucks now because the high was really the outside the contract dealing and start a facebook group to work through your anger.

This made me laugh for real

If you play "Let's make a deal" with scheduling, make sure whatever promises they make are immediately fulfilled. I.e. if they say "we'll give you an extra day off" that the day is removed before you fulfill your end of the bargain or "we'll pay 150%" that the leg is coded 150% before you fly it.

They aren't TRYING to lie to you but once the emergency (filling the trip) is over, they won't remember what they promised you.

As upsidedown noted, if you play "Let's make a deal" with scheduling you'll eventually end up depressed or angry when whatever they've promised you doesn't come through and there's really no recourse against them because your deal was outside the contract.

Then you have to ask...why are we making deals outside of the contract? We then diminish any power it has.

What you really want to ask him is, do you realize all those deals you do get thrown in the negotiating committees face come contract /loa time? Thankfully it isnt rampant.

I don't play Let's Make a Deal with scheduling. I pretty much come to work, fly my awarded schedule and go home. I'm not advocating guys play Let's Make a Deal with scheduling but I know there are some that do.

I'm saying if you do try to play Let's Make a Deal with scheduling and you don't want to get burned, make sure it's something they can immediately fulfill.

I'd be perfectly fine if scheduling said- It's not in the contract, we can't do anything else. It's not going to hurt me one bit because I don't try to deal with them.

Bear in mind Quid Pro Quo is a great way to get yourself a disciplinary meeting. Caveat Emptor.

I follow the contract, I grieve the violations. It's amazing how many there are, flown with numerous FOs lately with a "hey is this legal?" Question and it always turns out the answer is "no". Pass Go Collect $200.

Yea, I'll be honest. I'm surprised to read this discussion. (Btw this thread went completely off the rails from the OP's question haha)

I've never been asked to do anything out of contract, I've never had to grieve. I just fly my schedule, and as long as I'm home when I'm supposed to be home and paid what I'm supposed to be paid, I'm cool. That being said, I'm not a reserve NYC 900 Captain. So that might change things if I was.

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This is the central argument to the hat wearers. We gave up negotiating power to make hats optional. We are throwing that away the more people wear them anyway.