When will Endeavor wind down the operation?
 

My best guess is between the end of summer flying and before the thanksgiving holidays of 2015

Sept. 29, 2015?

Who cares. Let's just focus on getting out of here.

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I do find the first check of the retention bonus funny. 9/30/15

Or it has to deal with the Fiscal year ending 9/30/15...

Nope not at all. They will shut 9E down 3 years after Comair.



Ya I suppose you're right. I don't pay attention to that stuff

When will Endeavor wind down the operation?
 

Still with this? Does this really need a new thread? Isn't this basically what every other 9e thread has become? Perhaps a more appropriate question would be when will Pinnacle and Colgan shut down.....oh yeah, they already did!

So Delta uses them for th "rate reset" game. That should prove they only make 2-3% profit. Then Delta is going to go in the hole 15 mill a year for 2 years with this bonus to keep them running... They won't keep that up forever.. My guess 2 years. Then they will be on the same plan as Comair...

You do realize that the rate reset still includes the money Delta is inesting into 9E right? Per block our 9e is no where close to being the cheapest dci carrier. The rate reset will have no effect on the price Skywest is getting.

Yes. The ironic thing is 9E was a very cheap 200 operator...

Delta's fiscal year is Jan 1-Dec 31. Source

They aren't the government, they don't do this Oct 1-Sep 30 crap.

I think it is pretty sad how many former employees are just hoping we get shut down. They should be hoping they pays these bonuses and keep the doors open because that means airlines will have to keep fighting for pilots. We close our doors there will be an extra 1000 pilots to fill those clases making them have plenty of pilots. Get over the butt hurt that happened and move on.

Take heart that it's not in Delta's best interest to lose their feed.

How are your flight loads these days? At least 50-60% full?

Careful your Skywest boner is poking out.

Comair closed Sept 29, 2012...

I am by no means a Skywest fan member. I have worked for three regionals and skywest has its share of problems, but they are efficient and all I hear is this magical rate reset that is going to destroy Skywest. If this was the case OO wouldn't still be accepting 200's from delta.

I once worked at pinnacle and I have many friends there, but the morale at that company is the worst I have ever seen. I can only imagine how much worse it had gotten.

If I were still on property as an FO I would leave for no other reason than the top however many FO's that are pay protected as captains. That is a slap in the face of every other FO on property.

We aren't closing the doors. This is just the first step in making this a great place to work. I had lost faith but my faith is beginning to turn around. I am thankful for this money and it will most certainly help me out. It might be a little late but at least it's coming.

If they wanted to make Endeavor a great place to work they would offer contractual gains, for example, offer the JCBA back. They would also have to have a fleet plant that has growth to attract newhire pilots to come to Endeavor. Lets face it, a shrinking fleet with no new planes is not a recipe for success that any regional newhire would want when you consider that many others like PSA/Compass/TSA are getting lots of planes and have movement.

What's unique about this payment is that it is indifferent for longevity or seat. Anyone who stays until [insert date] is given a fixed amount of money. This isn't something to make the company a great place to work, this is an equivalent to a stop-loss program to mitigate attrition while the fleet is parked. You have to see it for what it is. Based on the dates listed, it's very likely the entire -200 fleet is parked by the first payout date (Sept '15). Then the next two dates are a stop-loss as the -900s are transferred elsewhere and unfortunately looks likely that Endeavor shuts down by 2016.

Follow this an example. Say you are working at 9E as a 7 year FO. Today they announce that the last Endeavor flight is Sept 29, 2015. All the -200s will be parked in Arizona and the -900s are distributed to TSA, PSA, Compass, and Skywest. By 09/2015, you won't have a job. Now if that is announced today, are you really going to stick around until then? Of course not. Nearly all FOs will bail to the first job offer available, and many will choose to go to PSA and TSA for the quick upgrade. But from 9E's perspective, that's a worse case scenario because now they have jets and a flight schedule for 10 more months that simply cannot be manned. The way to staff all the way to shutdown is to offer severance and bonus payouts as a method of enticing pilots to stick until the end. Comair did this and flew their schedule until Sept 29, 2012. You have to see it for what it is. I don't think Endeavor will be fully shut down by Sept '15 but based on the 2-year bonus program, the first payment of 09/30/2015 sounds like it will coincide with the parking of the entire -200 fleet, the last of which will leave by 09/29/2015.

I don't wish ill on any airline. Pilots are human and we all have wives/kids to take care of and provide for. A shut down hurts everyone. Hopefully 2015 turns out to be a great year for hiring at every legacy and LCC carrier. Oil is down, so going into 1st quarter looks good.

^^^ I think that's actually spot on and I completely agree with that.

Me too, ShyGuy is a genius.

That bonus is not just for people on property today. If you get hired tomorrow you will get bonus money. This is something for new hires to consider. If new hires show up in sufficient number upgrades will start. When upgrades start life will get better for all. Attrition off the top won't just be to Delta. There are other airlines hiring like United and American.

This should be a 9E sticky...

Yeah as for movement, a lot of folks are focused on how the SSP guarantees 12 a month or 144 a year versus 300 a year under the EtD... I will say that number does go up over time; there will be 15 a month (180/year) in 2017 and 20 a month (240/year) in 2018.

Though, I do agree with Shy guy and many others that the pre BK contract ought to be restored, I think beeotching that the SSP isn't generous enough angers Delta pilots and Delta management (since word gets around). Thus burning potential good will to bring on more Endeavor pilots through contractual improvements to the SSP. There are/were many things to be mad about, but for the people staying at Endeavor I don't think complaining is gonna sweeten the deals offered.

Parking planes does not = upgrades

That guy is clueless.

How can that even be possible with a final fleet count of 81 aircraft. I was never considered a math wiz but that would mean a lot more downgrades not upgrades.....

Assuming a stagnant seniority list a shrinking fleet for sure means no upgrades. However, it is more complicated than that. Theoretically, if a higher percentage of captains attrition out of here compared to FOs you could have upgrades and this is what the company was hoping for. However, the reality as of late the attrition has been heavy from the right seat in comparison to the left...which if it continues means continued downgrades.

Which if continued, will cause an inability to staff the airline, means cancelled flights.

If the mass exodus continues further, then the airline will be forced to either shrink to less than 81 900's or cease to exist.

With the legacies and tier 2 airlines and cargo carriers all increasing hiring more and more each month, there simply won't be any pilots left to fly the fleet!

It's a lose-lose situation for everyone on property. Endeavor is taking on water like the titanic. Better jump into a life raft NOW because the life rafts have limited space and releasing the ropes from the mothership as we speak.

This is true if no one leave this company. However, there's about 50 pilots leaving here a month. Would you agree that once Evdeavor gets to 81 airplanes and pilots continue to leave there will be upgrades once again? No one said when that will be but it will at some point.

I don't think Delta is done pulling rabbits out of hats for this place. They are running out of rabbits though. I think the next rabbit will come when we get close to the 81 plane end state (mid 2015). If there is no rabbit pulled...then we are dead.

The purpose behind this whole deal is still to reset the rates. The bonus money is probably excluded from the costs so this is still about putting the screws to Skywest. They only need to keep this place running until next December for the reset. After that who knows, I bet Delta is tired of dealing with Endeavor and all their problems.

Endeavor is not some independent stand alone contract carrier. Delta created Endeavor, and all the problems that it currently has. They can also fix them, and it seems to me they are trying to. FWIW, this place seems a lot more organized today than when I crossed over to the Pinnacle side from Messaba, in 2011

LOL

Yeah, all the problems Big D has created itself.

That's what we said at ComAir........

You honestly think the money delta is putting into the company is not going to be considered in the magical rate reset?