Babyjetdvr

Good luck, i took my FE written a loong time ago, i remember it being hard

KhoobNeest

All,

I'm trying to break into flight test engineering after a 20-year career as an AF pilot. But I seem to be caught in the paradox of "can't get a job without experience, can't get experience without a job." I have an aerospace engineering degree and experience as a Functional Check Pilot, but since I have no experience in industry to point to, my resumé doesn't appear to interest corporate recruiters for even the most entry-level positions.

Any suggestions on how to frame my experience in a way that'll pique their interest?

tomgoodman

KhoobNeest,

Here's a SFTE forum discussion that may be helpful:

Entry Level Flight Test Jobs?

Cubdriver

Wow, I'll trade you some flight test desk hours for some of your AF turbine time any day. I guess you're tired of flying as your primary duty or you would be looking for a test pilot job you already qualify for. It sounds like you are over-qualified for an entry level FTE job, but I guess you know that already. Another thought I have had for my own sake, is to take a course or even a seminar on flight test techniques to perk up my resume. Another thing that would be highly useful is continued education on coding, the young FTEs these days are all computer code-heads. Java, Matlab, etc.

Since you are having trouble getting your foot in the first FTE door, you may want to try starting with something else you can get hired to do, then move laterally within the company towards an FTE job if you prefer that. I am probably headed in the same direction lately, and not many FTE positions are being filled right now in the US (I see a few in Canada with Bombardier), so I am looking at things like FT aircraft readiness coordinator, FT safety manager, etc. A large FT organization such as Bombardier has lots of jobs and all you need to do is be willing to out in some time in another role for a while to get your foot in the door. I suspect what happens is they see you are targeting them for anything at all, then they start trying to see where you can fit in and they may even make a job for you.

Apply to both the direct company positions and contracted positions through contract houses. I have found that contract jobs are far better paid and sometimes even have better conditions attached.

KhoobNeest

Not especially, but lacking TPS or a DER I seem to be even less competitive for the flying jobs than for the non-flying jobs. I was hoping FTE would allow me to get my foot in the door, but it's looking like I need to set my sights lower--like janitor.

Cubdriver

Designated Engineering Representative is a title often obtained on the job, and a company may put it in the job description without actually planning to get any applicants. It is more common obtained on the job. Not a lot of people have it for flight test either, so the competition should not be too heavy on those jobs. A firmly stated intention to get an FAA representative status should keep your job application moving if you can get an interview.

The National Test Pilot School background is another thing that is very hard to get outside of work and few candidates have it coming through the door (or after being hired, for that matter). It is the gold standard for test pilot candidates, but being as expensive as it is, companies must look at candidates without it. I know it's depressing to check a box that asks "do you have a certificate of completion of any TPS course of programs" to no, but I assure you not many "can" check that box and they are still putting an application. What's more, I have known a number of successful test pilots without formal test technique training, they came up from non-flying jobs.

So, the takeaway is 1. Apply anyway 2. They are fishing for pretty rare people with postings like these.

wrxpilot

CubDriver,

Can you imagine how awesome it would be to go through the NTPS program? If I ever struck it rich somehow, that would be high on my list!

Cubdriver

I worked with pilots as well as flight test engineers who had not only gone to NTPS, some were the former instructors there. They inspired me to make the most of my aviation life, and made me want to expand into test pilot work as well. They are generally the best of the best, deep into the subject and loaded with stories about aviation. Unfortunately the price tag on the 2 year TP course is about $950,000 so I am not going myself, but they offer short courses that I aspire to attend in both flight techniques and analysis techniques.

mustang304

I have a ME degree, and an ATP and joined Boeing Flight test as a Test Director on 747-8 and 787. My perspective is from Boeing- each company is a bit different on their flight test branches.

There are several areas of Flight test that you can fit into. An EE degree can be valuable in systems, avionics, instrumentation and telemetry. The other option is to join one of the staff engineering groups and work your way into a flight position. This is usually done by being an expert in an area or becoming an DER/AR.

It does really help to be a pilot and an aviation enthusiast, however they are not always required. What I've noticed that Boeing is looking for is a strong technical skill set, a willingness to learn, schedule flexibility, team player and be in reasonably good health. Any experience you can get in testing (even lab testing) is a plus. An understanding of testing methodology helps. Intern positions do appear- keep an eye out for those as well.

Good luck-

Mustang304

744fo

Most major aerospace engineering companies have two types of flight test engineering - they have dedicated flight test departments which run and coordinate all flight tests, then they have engineering departments which have specialists in them that occasionally flight test their engineering work. E.G. you could work for Lockheed as an avionics engineer and occasionally flight test your boxes, or you could work for them as a flight test engineer.

As a student, particularly an engineering student, you should immediately seek student employment opportunities. Lockheed, Boeing, NASA Dryden, Gulfstream, Cessna, the DoD civil service, etc. all have both internship and co-op programs open to engineers. Co-Oping is usually considered a better path to securing a job offer upon graduation, even though it delays graduation a little bit. Go talk to your career service about starting to apply for opportunities like this. On the military flight test side, a lot of flight test work is also done by smaller subcontractors, so look around for engineering openings at any company surrounding places like Pax River and Edwards, etc. Also, check out your schools aerospace engineering departments, many big AE programs actually have one or two flight test classes you can take, complete with an instrumented aircraft. Most engineering positions will consider your aviation experience a huge plus, but mainly they are looking for quality engineers - good grades, some undergraduate student design experience and at least some student-style engineering work experience (working for a professor, an internship or a co-op).

As for securing a good job, you have a lot more job security as an engineer than as a pilot and more earning potential early in your career.

Hope that helps.