#alternativefacts

LOL... it's called #posthistory


Pretty simple, actually. But keep going...#smartguys

#stalker..

So that works out to about 2 1/2 - 3 years if everyone flows and no one gets hired outside of flow. 850 pilots / (25 per month flow X 12 months) = 2.8 years. Ymmv.

just in time to retire the e145's and transfer the e175's to RAH. everything else will be gone.

Why does your anger get triggered so fast? It's called an Internet forum. Of course I browse other threads. Who doesn't? I just see what's going on around the industry. You guys who cry about this "THIS IS MY AIRLINE LEAVE OUR THREAD" are a bunch of insecure babies. How old are we? When someone says something bad about my airline, go ahead. We all have a different opinion and different wants and needs.

Also, yes everyone at Skywest actually created a mass text to join this thread just to "gang up" on you. Come on. Sheesh, we're adults are we not? If you're a recruiter with this attitude towards other companies shame on you.

This dude loves to call out "snowflakes" yet is the biggest one of them all. Yes, he is a recruiter and not only goes after "outsiders" posting about Envoy but goes after Envoy guys just as hard who post anything negative about the company.

It's a serious blow to Envoy's recruiting department to have this attitude out here. They might pick up a few newbies this way but most people are pretty astute and can see right through this BS.

If he's responsible for being a company stooge, you and the rest of your buddies are responsible for spreading misinformation as well.

Most of the attitude on the line has changed. When I first started people were ****ed, but now most people seem to be okay and optimistic. Lots of things to work on but far from the hell people cry on here. Sucks ORD is shrinking. That's probably the worse of it all. Schedules seem to be improving month after month, albeit slowly. New hires are also coming, and the ones I've talk to seem happy and surprised it is not as bad as it is posted here on the forums.

No, you are an idiot company stooge.
schedules suck and will continue to suck more as flying is transfered to ske in ord, plus EJT in dfw. well the newbies i fly with have no idea what going on around them, most still live at thier parents and i would not care much about a newbbies opinion since they have no experience to base any on. Oh you mean the 3 new hires that are recruiters who dont have to get screwed on line and just go around bull shi+ing the next newbie.. But you are a company stooge. Misinformation, would you like to list the misinformation you spout about.

Following are the facts;
Envoy su cks, but has a flow,
schedules at envoy su ck, but has flow,
pay su cks, but there is flow,
benefits su ck, but we have flow,
minimum days off for minimum pay, but i can dream of that flow,
envoy shrinking faster than you, but hey, we have flow.

have i basically stated everything correctly.

Come in the front door or the back door your in at AA. I would go for the flow job any day of the week! And of course keep knocking on all the front doors. I worked for Horzion in 1993 (yes 1993) and Alaska was hiring us until they found out they were robing their feeder partner and we could not fly the routes. All hiring stop from Alaska. I would image AMR will stop the flow on the next contract and rob the other commuter of pilots.

I'm actually pretty surprised this is all that are electing to flow post-824. I was very roughly guesstimating close to 75ish lifers would change their mind, so this is good news.

Same here.

Don't forget the CRJs going to PSA.

I imagine once they put the call out for protected pilots to make their selections we will see more, but thus far I'm pretty surprised as well.

Envoy 824 flowthrough done PP metering begun!
 

I thought they did already? Isn't there a selection page for PP?


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Is that why you drink at the Blackjack table while in DBQ?

There is, but it becomes a lot more real when the company starts asking for PP selections. I'm sure there are many wafflers and also guys who simply don't realize they can select yet.

There was a HI6 that went out about the time it went live.

True, but when the company announces the 824 is actually over, it will become more tangibile for those who are procrastinating. Right now it is only through social media that anyone knows the 824 has all been selected, unless there was a union email I missed.

Anyone seriously contemplating the flow, is well aware that #824 was just selected, and Protected pilot #1 will be selected within the coming days.

Most lifers probably don't see the glamour in starting over again at the bottom of a seniority list, giving up their vacation, taking a $50,000 a year pay cut, and commuting to Queens to share a room with a bunch of Millenials, while sleeping in a hot bunk wondering how many years they will be on reserve. Frankly, I'm surprised how many (13) are choosing to go.

I get it. All I'm saying is don't be surprised if there are a few extra who throw their hat in the ring when the HI6 is sent out for the PPilots to begin making their choice.

Personally I thought it would be closer to 30. A couple union reps I talked to thought it would number over 100. So 13 really doesn't seem like many to me. Probably a result of always expecting the worst that comes with this company.

Hey, I'm thinking of Envoy for the flow to AA but was curious if it might be better to go corporate and at least get a better paycheck and then try to get onto AA outside the flow. Any thoughts?

Corp would be the more difficult route in most cases. Depends on your background and type to corp dept you'd be going to.

Check PM

Steer


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I believe you two are talking about 2 different things.

That's also assuming that every lifer who has already bypassed will change their mind. That's far from a reasonable assumption.

Is the flow really 10 years?

Why havent they already done that before then? It's a fun idea on paper but it has no practical basis. Plus UA/Delta can rob Envoy guys anyways negating your point. It's advantageous for all parties to keep the gravy train rolling. Amr can keep costs low at the regional feed by having control and having most pilots under 6 year pay and the regional partners can have a steady stream of pilots.

The current guys who are flowing have been here 13 years. We're currently working our way through the list flowing the guys who have been here for a long time. Last year, we were flowing guys who had been here 16 years. By the end of this year we'll be flowing guys at the 11 year mark and it will keep falling as we get rid of guys who got stuck here in the "lost decade" after 9/11. The 6 year number the company advertises is a projection of how long it will take current new hires to flow. That's of course assuming everything keeps moving and there's not a huge economic downturn from another 9/11 type event or soaring gas prices that slow down hiring at AA.

In which case you won't get hired on anywhere else as well at a WO or not...

Valid point.

If something like that were to happen, I would rather be at the top of the envoy list as opposed to the bottom of the AA list (furlough fodder).

That's not true. Current lifers are around 300-350.

What part of what I wrote isn't true?

Well, there was only one part to your post, so I guess the whole thing.

Any word on when the first selection from the Protected Pilot list will be made? When the first person on the protected pilot list will start at AA? And of course, where is Charlie Bucket?

I wouldn't worry about selection, it is mostly meaningless. Though I suppose for the beginning of the PPs it may be useful just to see how many lifers take up the first slots.

From our MEC Chairman:
"As of April 4th, Envoy has flowed 775 pilots under the 824 Award and the subsequent four-party agreement. The second class in April is expected to have 8 flows. May is forecast to have 2 AA classes with a total of 30 flow through pilots, which would bring us to 813. June would then be the last month of 824 pilots, reaching the end of an era so to say, with the last 11 expected to flow in the first class in June.
Moving forward, we look towards the beginning of the Protected Pilots. The term “Protected Pilots” is a broad classification that covers every single pilot still on property hired at American Eagle prior to October 11, 2011...Because we don’t have exact knowledge of AA’s class sizes for June, I can’t predict how many, if any, Protected Pilots will flow in June or whether July will see the first tranche."

So you think that most lifers will miraculously change their minds and flow now?

Maybe you should re-read what I wrote originally...slowly...move your lips.

I tried your douchebag suggestion...turns out you're still wrong. You accused them of assuming "every lifer who has already bypassed will change their mind." They were not assuming anything close to that in their post. Your turn to try some reading. You can just read the normal way though, I'm sure it will work fine.

Still, Lifers will have a hard time adjusting and maybe even passing training at AA. I don't see many of them flowing.