Reserve
 

Hello all,
How long is RSV on the 175? And how long is the upgrade on it currently please? With and without prior 121
Thank you

RSV has been running about 3-4 months last I heard. Most JR 175 CA award is a December 2015 hire. ORD is opening a 175 base too so expect that to shuffle all the times on the 175 up. If you have 1,000 hours 121 domestic time, you can upgrade almost immediately on the 145.

Thanks for the info. Would you be sitting RSV long as an "immediate" 145 CA? Do you have Equipment lock?
I'm typed in all 3 equipments and have over a1000 121 and like many people I know would rather wait to flow in the left seat of the 175..

You'll be reserve for awhile because every month you'll be getting pushed down the list by those who are getting their 1000 hours and upgrading. Seems like you'd flirt with getting off and then get pushed down every month. You're equipment locked for a year.

RSV would be a few months in LGA and MIA. They are going to grow both of those bases next year which will keep things moving. You'd be on RSV a very long time in the 175. Once the deliveries stop it will stagnate.

If you come to Envoy with prior 121 time you are a street Captain. Literally. We run upgrade bids every 2-3 months and you'll get it right out of the gate. As long as you are open to any equipment/base.

make sure you read this thread dont want you to only listen to certain people

Thank you all for your input. How often are you used on RSV? CA and FO
and I guess the big question is, How "guaranteed" the flow to AA really is?

And what happens to the signing bonus in this scenario?

In ORD and DFW, reserves are used nearly constantly. I think it's less in LGA, and MIA just opened today, so there's no precedent as of yet. The act of flowing is guaranteed, the actual date you flow is not, as evidenced in class cancellations in Sept. and Oct.

Flow is guaranteed. As long as AA keeps running classes, we send guys. But if you have a degree, have a good personality, and no skeletons in the closet, you'll more than likely be able to move on somewhere before the flow. The flow for someone hired today is projected at 8 years. It's only gonna get higher. Just look at it as an insurance policy.

Flow in 8 years??
I know it's marketing, but Envoy is "projecting" flow to AA in 6 years; with the mandatory retirements looming (all else being equal), I am hoping that the flow will accelerate even faster than that. The USAF can't fill cockpits, can't even get enough applications for the Thunderbirds, and can't even fill navigator classes. They are now producing enlisted UAV pilots. There is just not enough mil pilots to feed the airlines in the numbers required for the next 10 yrs. AA "must" retire nearly 11,000 pilots in the next 15 years. Things could change, but wow, the opportunities ahead of us are pretty amazing. From 2021-24, AA will have 3600 retire (900/yr); Envoy flows 25% each year, or 225 pilots. Over those 4 years, that is 900 envoy CAs out the door, not to mention those going elsewhere. Is my math right? Could flow (at that time) be about 4 years total?

As long as they keep metering the flow, times will continue to rise.

By rise, do you mean flow times get longer, or quicker?

Flow time will keep going down (getting quicker) and will drop as low as 5 years. Guys that got hired around April and May of last year hit it absolutely perfect. They will see about a 5 year flow, possibly slightly sooner. Then as you get to guys hired after that point in time, flow starts rising. Think about it, if you're hiring far many more guys a month than you flow, the flow time has nowhere to go but up (get longer). Without an increase in the amount of guys we send to AA each month, flow time will continue to increase.

And keep in mind, the language for new hires regarding flow is that Envoy will send the lesser of 25% of AA slots or 5 new hire slots (increase by one for every 125 pilots above the base of 480 on the list) multiplied by the number of months in the year. What all of that complicated language boils down to is that they will be sending 15-17 guys a month.

Right now, the particular group of guys that we are sending are going at a minimum rate of 25/month. After that group finishes (anyone hired after 10/2011) the flow rate drops to 15/month. We are currently hiring anywhere from 65-75 guys per month. The flow can't keep up with hiring that many people so mathematically the only outcome is for the flow time to keep increasing. It's currently 8 years and as long as we keep hiring big numbers and our flow rate doesn't increase, flow will be creeping in on the 9 year mark within a few months.

The guys flowing right now are at about 12 years seniority at Eagle/Envoy. That time should drop to about 5 years for guys that currently have about 1.5 years of Envoy seniority. Those guys are the ones who were lucky enough to time things just right. Anyone hired after them will have a longer duration at Envoy, with guys being hired today projected to take almost 8 years to flow. So long as they continue metering the flow to the minimum as is required per the flow agreement, you will see that time increase. The needs of AA do not increase the metered amount. The only real unknown factor is people leaving above you outside the flow.

Here are a few suggestions:
- Only think about coming here if you live in NY, DFW, ORD.(not sure about MIA).
- Commuting to reserve for Envoy is terrible. It's about as having to tell people you fly for MESA.
-Don't think about the flow. Just don't. Stop thinking about it.
-If you want the 175 CA then well I'm not sure you will be able to get it as a street hire type CA. You may get it but it's not a sure thing. But then again no one thought we would have 150 FOs bypass upgrades.

Thanks, all though that does curb the enthusiasm a wee bit. Although it would seem beneficial for AA to open the WO flow meter some if the Military can't feed the beast, and the other options are OTS guys who've been out of a jet for a decade.

AA will never have problems filling classes.

What do the reserve times in ORD look like? From finishing IOE to when FOs are getting lines.

No, your math is wrong. Flow is contractually set to decrease at certain times, and is capped by the company every month, no matter how much AA hires. Current new hires are projected to flow in 8+ years, and that seems to be an optimistic projection, since every year there seem to be periodic training backlogs at AA (like what they are experiencing right now), and every year the actual number of flows is well under the projected number.

The specifics of the flow could someday change if it becomes unsustainable, but as it is currently written and enacted flow could not be 4 years for a new hire.

Reserve on average is as low as it practically can be. It will be at this level for the foreseeable future. When an airline is hiring at the pace Envoy is then it is going to be low. You will be on reserve for a short time. More senior reserve bases will have slightly longer times but not by much.

Talked to a 145 FO recently that finished IOE, spent the rest of that month on reserve (maybe 2 weeks), then had a line the next month. Not sure what the CRJ reserve is like, but I imagine it's similar.

I flew with a CRJ guy who got off IOE three weeks ago, and he has a line this month.

Well that pretty much makes me regret accepting the job offer. I chose Envoy for flow and MIA. Should I go to Republic instead?

Hey don't make any decision based on what I say. Honestly I have no clue how Miami will shake out. Not one clue. Also, we are currently and for the past three years have been trying to get a new reserve rules in place. When they come out we will see how things work out.

Also, I'm not saying you won't flow or it won't work as advertised in 7-8 years. I'm just looking at the big picture and would be shocked if you couldn't get to a legacy before you flowed.

Also, you run the chance of Envoy kicking republic out of Miami in a couple years when Envoy grows significantly over the next couple years.

How much more can Envoy really grow? It looks like they are hiring like crazy, and doing the pipeline program, but at some point that will likely taper off wouldn't it. Unless there is a lot more growth.
In any case, I still plan on sending them an app next year.

Do not base a career decision based on what an anonymous person posts on an online forum. Not a knock on any individual poster, but you have to take everything here with a grain of salt. No one knows the future and only you know your own personal situation.

I agree and I've been in the aviation industry long enough to believe everyone but verify everything. Coming from the 135 world I can tel when the writing is on the wall, but I can't read it till I get inside. I am looking forward to starting with Envoy this month. And in this current regional situation there are lots of options out there. Looking at upgrade times and the quick moving seniority numbers as my reason for picking the E over R

Do you live in Miami?

Law of diminishing returns. Seems like the pilot hiring faucet is wide open but there are too many leaks in the bucket with people leaving. That's why envoy management must be very happy that out of the blue Aa decided to reduce hiring for the last 4 months of the year(1/3rd of a whole year people). Oh I forgot about the 80 guys in November. So 25 guys go that month. Less than 33% of the month. Nowhere near 50%. Put that in your calculations

Please don't tell me you're not making a career decision based on what an anonymous online poster told you. If you are..then maybe you should go to Mesa. They are known for hiring people with great judgment skills.

Yea downtown Ft Lauderdale. You?

Hahah no not even close. Like I said, Believe everyone but verify everything.

Well, just a few years ago we were 1000 pilots bigger than we are now. Of course, we were 95%+ of AA's feed back then and that will never happen again, and AA's scope is close to being maxed out. Our growth will taper off at some point. One would hope that at that point our flow will stop being metered, but that may just be wishful thinking.

It is.... filler

Remember when we used to fly the 145 between DFW and GSO? The leg back sometimes had to have a fuel stop in MEM. The crew typically consisted of a 58 year old grey haired Captain, a 8 year FO, and a granny FA who sometimes needed a wheel chair waiting for HER on the jetbridge. And about 200lbs worth of Jepp binders and kit bag stickers.

Those were some quaint times.

No dude! First off even if you don't think about flow, envoy has great pay, retention bonuses, upgrade is amazing, and the commuter policy with the hotels and the missed flights is a huge deal to me. And why shouldn't you think about flow? It's not like a hypothetical, it's a guarantee. And it will go down. None of the math these guys have been using takes into account attrition to other airlines, as retirement ramps up attrition will double or triple, that means faster flow. Hopefully you can get hired somewhere outside of flow, but if not, it's an incredible back up plan, and historically, spending 8 years at a regional before going to an legacy is CRAZY. There are a lot of guys on these forums who are very angry at the company, and some for good reason, if I'd been through what they had I'd probably be angry too. But it's a different time, in my short time at envoy the company has treated me wonderfully. Going beyond what they were obligated to do at almost every opportunity. Don't let their bad experience ruin what is an incredible opportunity.

I need some advice:

If you are in the middle of "relations" with a girl on an overnight, and you glance over at the clock and realize it's only 5 hours before your wake up call...is it bad form to fake an O and scurry back to your room? And would leaving an extra coffee packet from your room on her door the next morning as an "I'm sorry" gesture suffice?

I'm asking for a friend.

Just leave her the stirring stick so she would have something to remember you by. And if your really feeling generous leave the cream.