envoy Christmas
 

‘‘Twas the night before Christmas and all through envoy, not a creature was stirring, not even Dacuj.

The stockings were all hung in the crew room with care, in the hopes that the Patron Saint of Flow would soon be there.

The standby pilots were snoozing in airport recliners while the execs and recruiters were at Christmas parties complaining about pilot whiners.

Out on the ramp there arose such a clatter, the standbys all ran out to see what was the matter. A belt loader had crashed into a plane. The standbys all looked at each other and knew they were going to be blamed.

They take their lumps and keep waiting for the flow, only to see they have further and further to go. Less and less pilots and more airplanes, keeps the flow away and everything the same.

Flustered and frustrated they question one who made it through, only to find out more bad news. He says keep waiting and waiting and maybe you’ll get set free, only you find out there’s no such thing.

If you finally do make it, don’t get too coy, really over here it’s just one big envoy.

Troll. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

It's not even thanksgiving! It's too early for Christmas stuff!

It gets earlier every year!!

I thought it was funny.


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envoy Christmas
 

You’re like the guy who went to community college but still hangs out with the high school kids. You always tell them how much high school sucks, and college is so cool. Yet l there you are, hanging at high school football games with high schoolers.

Can we get a ban for the troll, please?


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You must be someone who banked on the flow now stuck at envoy for the duration while flow is violated.

¡Feliz Navidad amigos! You Christmas present is to stay around longer as flow drags longer and longer.

You must be someone who was fired from Envoy. Is it true that you cried?

It's true.

Who is staying around longer because of metering or delayed classes at AA? Flow is a backup and should be used as such. It's nice to have a solid backup while building flight time and applying to all the legacies. I just found out today that one of my buddies got hired off the street for November.
Get a life rondon. Do you post on all the other airline forums that they have to stay around longer at their regional when AA cancels new hire classes?

The envoy pilots is staying around longer because of the delayed flow amigo. I have to come here and inform the hombres is all you do is recruiting lies. They need truth more than the lies.

Hardly. I’ve always said the flow is a backup. I’m building my resume and applying as I meet the mins at the majors.

You should get help before it’s too late.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...hs-and-sadists




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Tell you what brah. I'll get some "help" and you enact your backup plan because you are going to need it. That is unless you see a solid 10 years at envoy as palatable till flow.

LOL. Troll.


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My friend. You just admit in your own post that inexperience is what you are. You might take the advice of wise ones on this forum and stop drinking company coolaid.

Three thing:

1- The company negotiated in bad faith when they said we could flow 50% of AA new hire class but never intended to honor it.

2- I think most people have some type of Stockholm syndrome or they are just numb to the fact that the company doesn't honor the contract.

3. No uproar will take place by the pilot group until they company breaks the 25 per month minimum. And even then I'm not sure the level of backlash will be very strong if the contract violation isn't perceived to be very egregious.

But in all fairness your post are usually over stating the negatives or you are just making stuff up. No one likes you here and you have no credibility because you aren't objective or honest.

Yeah it seems bad faith negotiations to me. Prior to #40 they could always say we'll it was arbitrated that way, now that we have them it's all based off what we negotiated and publicly stating never more than 25 throws out their "staffing needs" vs bad faith argument.

But like all things with Envoy it will come down to what an arbitrator will rule. I just hope they've weakened their case.

What part of my post was a lie?

The recruiting department has never lied about flow or upgrade. They said the upgrade time was going to drop to 2.5 years when it was, at that time, 8.5 years. Everyone said we were liars then and it's now dropped to weeks. Did anyone make any apologies after publicly defaming the recruitment department and it's team? Nope.
In regards to flow, the recruitment department has always used the minimum flow numbers(metering numbers) to determine the 6 year flow. Its now increasing because of the size of new hire classes and the department admits that. But that assumes that nobody leaves to the other legacies over the next 6-8 years.

Use the flow as a backup and a way to consistently move up the seniority list while at Envoy. That's the part of the flow nobody ever talks about. Who doesn't want to be at an airline where they move up at least 25 numbers every month!? Plus you have attrition to other airlines. If a new hire can't live with an 8 year flow right now, than go somewhere else. Enjoy the slower upward movement, longer upgrades, and no back-up plan. Nobody is tricking anyone into coming to Envoy!

This, Yes, Exactly.

Speaking truth. Well said.

It's the entitled syndrome going on... Everyone DESERVES what they want.

OK troll.

Calling out trolls who intentionally paint Envoy in a bad light (for whatever agenda they have) doesn’t mean drinking the company koolaid.

It is undeniable that Envoy is one of the best regionals to go to right now, as evidenced by our hiring numbers, the fast movement, and pay. Unfortunately, that’s like the Hogs beating Coastal Caroline by one point. It still doesn’t change the fact that they suck, or that Envoy is a REGIONAL. Reserve needs drastic improvements. Management needs to take a break from growth so we can take back some QOL. The sign on bonus d!ck swinging needs to end and guys with longevity need to be recognized and better compensated.

As for the flow, it’s a back up plan and should be treated as such. In five years, it might deserve to be a primary plan. Who knows? I️ don’t. But anyone who claims to know, troll or not, shouldn’t be trusted or listened too.


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Spring/Summer of 15 when the company announced 2.5/6 it was impossible due to the current hiring. I don't think anyone in the recruitment part believed this. If anyone did then they are an absolute idiot. Hiring at the time was anemic and artificially inflated because they had choice of base and 175. If ANYONE believed 2.5/6 was possible (without substantial pay increases and less then 6 months after the company to "commair" us and force us into a concessionary contract) then again I say you are an idiot.

Once the pay increase was announced in the summer/fall of 15 then it became a possibility. I along with many other knew the upgrade times would drop drastically based on the number of NHs. We have had two years of saying upgrade times would drop.

2.5/6 came close but it still would of missed the mark if 250 FOs wouldn't of bypassed the upgrade. FYI

Also, you only move up 21 numbers each month plus attrition. But, besides that I agree even if one doesn't use the flow the attrition alone is a key benefit due to the upward movement.

Envoy has and for the foreseeable future is a great place for a NH without prior 121 time.

I do agree with the majority of your opinion but I am willing to bet that, NEVER has any recruiter stated the truth about our QOL and demeaning nature of our corporate leaders and personnel. Yes the flow is good, but why does our flow have to be the excuse to the abusive natured personnel? If only the toxic environment of our leadership could be cleansed. Not following the contract, abusive relationship with labor groups, below standard pay scales, constant degradation of morale, etc. is all.....ALL in the hands of the top people here. No one is talking “entitlements” here. I’m talking items that were agreed upon and should be honored to every word. Not interpreted. But I don’t expect Envoy to because after my long tenure here, they never have. No honor whatsoever.


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I agree the flow should never to relied upon as more than a last chance backup, as it's too unreliable. (This is my own opinion, and not that of any company or employer).

To be fair, one doesn't always move up even the measly 25 every month. Just look at the entire second half of 2017. Minimal flows and lethargic movement, including ZERO flows in October and December (maybe more zero months, but I've lost track).

Isn't it sad that the best thing about the place is that there is an established mechanism to help people quit and start new employment?

Again, these are not the opinions if any company or employer.

This is a good analysis. For example, take the 1 turnback for reserves agreed upon in the last TA. Almost immediately the company began violating it and within a couple of months, a guy on a 6 day reserve stretch might leave on day one and never see home again until the end of the 6th day. How is this following the agreement that was signed and agreed to by both the union and company?

Now, take the current lack of flow and metering. It was mentioned previously that the union site has just, yet again, delayed the flow dates for everyone. Why? Because the company is metering and of the 80 or 88 hired in November only 25 Envoy will flow? The company has proven that they will violate any agreement when it benefits them, boy did that LTFO really cost them.

So, what do you think they will do with the increasing need for pilots both CA and FO? What they are doing above, slowing and metering the flow which dilutes your benefit. It might get worse if they need you bad enough. I predicted here about two years ago that this would happen but was scoffed at. If you are close to a flow date, say within 1 year, which would mean a 2006 or 2007 hire, think of the hundreds of people coming in above you while you wait with the flow slowdown and metering.