What would better reserve look like?
 

I don’t want to “negotiate on the internet” but being new to 121, I have no idea what it looks like else where.

So here goes: What would a (realistic) better/best possible reserve look like? What makes Envoy’s so bad?

Give us Long call, and use it correctly. Not calling people to put them on short call the next day.

Ready reserve, no more. Not going to happen, so reduced to 6 hrs and not so many people on ready.

Earlier notification or proffer choice

Higher credit to get more days off. 11 is all envoy gets on reserve.

Last day of reserve to end early. Right now a pilot on their last day of reserve just on rap 2 can finish at midnight. So he just did 5 on with 3 off but because he finished at midnight, now he has to commute on 1st day off, off one day then commute on off day 3 because he has 4am rap on day 1 of 5

Allow pvds

Many more ways to make it better

Long call

No standby

Bypass ability

Definitely a long call. No more preassigned RAP1, as it wreaks havoc on commuters' off days. Early finish on last day. If preassigned RAP1's remain, then if commuters are assigned a RAP1 on 1st day of a reserve sequence, then commuters should get a hotel that DOES NOT count against the 4 alloted hotels a month, plus positive space travel to base the day prior. An earlier proffer and confirm window, so that commuters don't waste a day off commuting, only to learn that they didn't need to once they get there, because the 2nd to last flight leaves home prior to ability to confirm the 1st day assignment. This waste time and hotels.

Long call (didn’t realize Envoy didn’t have this)

Min 12 days off

100% deadhead

78 hours min guarantee for Short Call Reserve

Hotel allowance to $4000 /year with no monthly caps as long as the night touches a trip.

Release on the last day of a reserve period is a “hard time”. You can’t be scheduled to fly after the end of the period.

A pilot on Short Call Reserve may not be converted to "Hot" if they have already blocked more than 2 hours in a given day. Can not be converted to "Hot" more than once /reserve period. (Not sure if Envoy has Hot Reserve).

...those are good starts.

Excelent list. However, Envoy will never get rid of its "Hot" or ready reserve usage. They have an airport standby at JFK that sits for 8 hours and only covers two or three trips. Let that sink in for you. LGA DFW and ORD have three shifts where two CAs and FOs sit for 8 hours for flights.

Also, the reserve hotels should be unlimited for pilots who volunteer for the turn back list.

Minimum 12 hrs between secquences.

I don't understand why they can't take those 2 8 hour reserves and turn then into a 4 hour stby then another 4 hour stby. Still get 2 people covering 8 hours of flights just less tired, stressed, and angry employees.

Long call and short call reserve only, with the current 2-3 hour call for short.

1 pilot per seat for ready reserve if they must have ready.

12 days off minimum.

Commute allowed during first and last reserve period (doesn't affect me).

Selfishly, for me, I'd like to see short call or ready reserve used for turns and any trips that terminate in base so I'd get to sleep at home more.

Have the RAP start time built into the reserve schedules. You would have that RAP start time for the full month. You would then profer for trips and standby. Not for RAPs.

Minimum 12 days off for reserve lines.

Have a max amount of times you can be assigned Airport Standby in a month.

Can’t be assigned Airport Standby 2 days in a row.

Can’t be assigned Airport Standby on your last day of reserve. Able to volunteer through.

Limit Airport Standby to 4 or 6 hours.

Get paid for the actual time you sit.

If called out to fly from Airport Standby, automatically released from the rest of your shift when you return to base.

Certain percentage of line Long Call.

Earlier confirmation for following day assignments.

On last day of reserve automatically released to days off at 6pm.

Call me first / call me last option.



Coming from another 121 carrier to Envoy, I am surprised at what terrible reserve rules Envoy has. We need to make fixing reserve a top priority.

Why didn't the pilots get a chance to vote on the Reserve LOA presented in October? It seems like a lot of these topics were brought up in that letter but the vote never happened. It was just thrown in the trash?

Because it didn’t do nearly enough to improve the system and ALPA quickly realized that the LOA wouldn’t pass.

Also garbage language and gave up too much stuff to get very few gains. The LOA mostly favored the company.

For non-commuter I imagine reserve is cake. As for one not already living in base and not willing to relocate my life for a stepping stone job, I just need to know I can get to work well rested. Positive space travel to work (to home would be nice too) and somewhere to sleep, exercise, and shower each night.

It is only my opinion, but I don't think at this point there should be any trade-offs. Any contract change should be the company giving to us, for nothing in return. Everything should be a no vote unless it is given to us for free. This company has shown over and over again that they will not offer improvements unless they feel they need to. And if they need the improvements, then we don't have to pay for them. If they need the improvements to guarantee staffing, then let them give us the improvements for nothing in return.

Because the LOA was garbage and it became absolutely clear that the vast majority of our pilot group was against it.

Couldn’t agree more.

All the airport reserve in NYC is no bueno. You're looking at $15-25 in tolls alone every time you drive there if you don't live on LI/NYC. It's making me think long and hard about the lateral move, especially since I'm looking at about 2 years on reserve.

Piedmont doesn't have airport standby, so I bet y'all could get that removed eventually.

Don’t forget, it doesn’t matter what gains we can or should get with RSV. It won’t matter until the CS department is Managed better.

PDT doesn't have enough pilots to have a reserve system. We don't want PDTs QOL. I have had a hard enough time advocating Envoy when we only had 13 day off averages. I can't imagine what it's like working at PDT. Working 11 days a month on trips is insane. I don't get how people actually go to PDT and have a life.

What would better reserve look like?
 

Yep. Too many times grabbing from the cookie jar. This is what happens when you don’t honor agreements made. The plaintiffs just adapt and any further trash sent to them gets immediately thrown out because you now have zero credibility with said people.

In my opinion the simplest way for them to heal their credibility issues is to stop the damn metering and start recruiting by their own successes from within.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Please share this with your recruiter. The company needs to hear how poor of an idea it is to force someone into the left seat rsv in LGA.

RAH doesn’t have airport reserve either. And as I understand it, EDV has a more restrained ready reserve policy. As someone potentially looking at years on reserve with the forced upgrade, it makes a difference. It’s one thing if reserve is a few months. But when you’re looking at years, that’s a tough rock to swallow.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree. I wouldn’t mind so much with a long call and a 3 hour short call, something where you are going to the airport to do something, but a year plus of airport appreciation sounds... wonderful. 🙄

Airport standby is most definitely the worst part of RSV. Unfortunately, it’s the company’s bread and butter for getting flights out on time that would otherwise go out late. There is absolutely nothing that would get the company to grant relief on standby. And at this point, I don’t see any changes to RSV coming. From what I’ve heard through the grapevine, management wasn’t too pleased with us trashing that garbage RSV LOA and talks between ALPA and the company on RSV are pretty much done. So this whole thread is pretty much a moot point.

That’s disappointing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

What would better reserve look like?
 

No, that's ENY.

70 new pilots a month on avg entering the magic kingdom means all is wonderful in Disney Land. The brand is Magically Delicious kids so come on into the candy van.

2017 surprises are over. We'll patiently wait until 1st and/or 2nd Quarter 2018 for the good news cycle for bigger news, possible changes, contract shakeups, or bonuses, and/or regional mergers. We are historically due for another.

Another thought. Make reserve a no brainer for non-commuters by giving more control over their schedule.
* Proffering is a great option to help pilots get flying in when they want it.
* Min 11 days off (later this gets better);
* 2 days between reserve blocks (kind of obvious);
* when extended into day off pilot's discretion 150% above MMG or choice of drop day either first or last day of another reserve block either in current or following month (gives the pilots a lot more control over their schedule without threatening ops);
* if not called within 4 hours of end of RAP on second to last day, released into break without change to MMG (Not likely to be used anyway, and I think scheduling can build around the likelihood of pilots releasing a day early);
* and four golden days/guaranteed days off per year.

see responses above.

Did you forget we basically have all this. You must be on the negotiating committee.

Alright fella's. Great ideas and all, but keep in mind that the company reviews these threads regularly. We're basically tipping our hand, and weakening our negotiating power (not like we're negotiating anything right now anyway) by making public knowledge what our bottom line is. As long as flights are staffed and going out on time, the company has no incentive to 'give' or 'negotiate' anything. Send your reserve thoughts and ideas to your union reps. Fly safely!

I see it a different way. The negotiating committee was way out of touch with what we wanted. So until they start listening to us, and actually standing up to the company, it will be on here. It's simple, get this or don't bother putting out an LOA. They didn't listen to the pilot group for the loa they the away, and if that's was the best they could get, well then they need all the help they can get.

Yes the company looks on here, good, now they see we want actual changes and not **** with the typical "if we can" language.

I was talking to the ord CA rep a few months ago, and asked him why they don't stand up to the company, his response "I want to keep my job". That's what we have fighting for us.

First read MY original post about this thread.

No one is negotiating anything or saying what they would or wouldn’t have to have to accept any hypothetical change.

Just wanted to know what made Envoy so bad and what else is out there that is better.

If anyone from another airline wants to say something, great. Just looking for information about reserve.

Learned a lot. Not expecting anything to change one way or the other at Envoy or anywhere else. But great if things get better.

I agree to an extent. I'm not 100% sure, but I think the LOA came from the company after years of union proding them for some kind of reserve relief. Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe the union DID listen to the pilots when they realized that the loa was not the depth that we wanted. If we direct our officers toward what we want, and they take it to the company, then great. That's the way it's supposed to work. If they don't, then take it to the public pilot group streets, and via for a position on the negotiating committee. This thread produced some great ideas, and took a good reading of what we all want. But for now, from the company's eyes, it's just ramblings. They will do nothing with this. The company will not negotiate with us directly. Rather you have high faith, or none at all in the union, they are the only ones that can intercede on our behalf. Unfortunately it seems that negotiations on reserve have halted. For now at least. I hope you're right, in that the company would see this and be moved to initiate positive change in our direction. But I just don't see that happenening.

Wow! You really think the union gives a ?!”# about anything on a forum?! Can’t even get a response from direct communication with the union.

To me a bigger concern is a forced upgrade and all that goes with it. The reserve problem is just a small slice of why guys aren’t upgrading when they can/should.

Envoy is going to lose current/future pilots if that issue is not addressed. I’m pretty sure no one ever imagined this would be an issue when the forced upgrade provision was put in the contract.

What would better reserve look like?
 

I don’t think they HAVE to fix reserve if they stop metering. More flowing is a no-brainer!

Let me rephrase that. By not metering, I mean 50%. Not 26 pilots a month.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Was hoping someone could clear up some questions about reserve. Are all pilots on reserve on for 6 days straight? Is it possible to drop days? Drop day 3 so as to avoid a 6 day trip? Can open time be picked up by a reserve pilot If so is it at 200%?

Reserve schedules are usually 2-4 days on followed by the sets of 5 days then 1-3 days at the end of the month. The first day of the month is never built with a day off. The only time you would get a 6 days in a row is if your last trip plus your first trip equals 6 or more days. Contractually we have to have 50% of the lines have three sets of three days off in a row. If a line doesnt have three sets of three days off then four days off in a row will be somewhere in the line.

You can request to drop ANY day you want. However you are more likely to get a drop if it touches a day off. But it could happen.

You can pick up OT. You get paid what the override is. Standard is 150% but if the company declares critical coverage then it is 200%

The reason why they do 5 days is because they want to be able to junior man you into 6 days if needed. They can’t have rsv guys stuck at our stations on day 7.

That's why i try to pick up OT on the day prior. Weather or MX forces a JM/JP then you get a 7d and a JP DH. Then you no show the DH and get 16ish hrs of pay and you get home either that night or early on your day off.