If not on this displacement he will be making the change on the next one cause his ass is going on the 145 LGA

Unless they had class dates at Major's, I doubt that.

Yeah. That's a lot of bonus money to pay back if any of it was spent.

Not sure how much of this to believe, but thanks for taking the time to write it for those of us still looking around.

When MIA/NY closed and they transferred all of us involuntarily to ORD, I called the CP office that day, quit and Fedex’d my manuals out. Didn’t have a job lined up, picked up contract work collected myself from all the frustration and BS eagle subjected me to and turns out had a great time taking a break.

I hope guys walked in and quit.

Most of what you read is accurate although that doesn’t make it a horrible place to work by any means. I’ve dug ditches before and believe me this is better than that, lol.

What needs to happen to erase all of this negativity and poor moral is rather straight forward if the company would just decide to do it.

1. Get our pay back up to or close to industry high. I.E Endevor. It’s depressing knowing our captains make 20+$ less than people doing the same thing, which equates to $20,000+ more a year for them.

2. Fix reserve system so that people will actually want to upgrade and not have to resort to forced displacements that do nothing but **** pilots off and decrease our already limited time with our families and friends.

3. Flow flow flow. Enough said. We need to trust that the company will not violate like it did after this summer. We need an end date, even if it is years out, to stay fairly reliable so we can accurately plan for our future. This is a big deal for people.

If those three things happened we would once again be the top place to come. Right now the recruiting numbers look good because of the HVA and RTP programs so who knows if any of this will change.

Other than that, like I said a few weeks back, the company has treated me well and with respect, even through some sick calls. The CPO is management but that is the same everywhere, although again they have been nothing but respectful. I will say that I have had no issues, violations or bad reports from captains so that could change for someone that is performing badly.

Envoy treats Flow as a huge part of their compensation and retention package. Why would they ever raise rates to Endever or anything close to industry high? They don't need to. They get plenty of recruits with the bonus and they have no problems with retaining Captains with the flow.

You “may” be correct hence the last paragraph of my post. However everything you mention is past tense and time will tell of people react or not.

What was your time line

No not seriously. The guy he cites as an example was a scammer that made a big show of it. I’ve heard everything from they fired him for having a cold to him taking FMLA for a kid he didn’t have. You don’t have the full story, but it’s never that simple. If you get fired for calling in sick once call the FAA and your congressman.

As for the rest of the whinging, it’s not like all of this wasn’t public information. You know the pay scales either you can make it on the pay or you can’t.

Commuting to LGA/JFK? Amazing that you’d end up being based at one of the airline’s bases, what are the odds?

Enjoy siting in a cubical worshiping the flashing rectangle for the rest of your life. That life is miserable, this is the easiest job I’ve ever had despite some of the ****ery.

I am coming into this conversation late, but man, it sounds like a ******* show. I only came on to this board to research and help my daughter make a career decision. She has an undergrad and master's in music, but aviation is a passion, has been for a long time and for some unknown reason seems to want to fly 121. On one side I feel bad for her, as it sounds like a mess getting to a good spot in a career. On the other hand, music is a freaking mess also and the compensation is a joke in comparison to what 121 is getting. And I know she would just be depressingly miserable in a corporate job. Right now her "office" is an L-19 Bird Dog, with almost no compensation. But I am not sure it gets much better than that. These might indeed be "the good old days".

Was looking at Envoy with her, but I just don't know...

Has she applied to the majors already (particularly Delta)? Female aviatiors are considered diverse and are regarded as extremely desirable candidates for the best positions in this career.

Regardless, if going to a regional to improve the resume for a street hire at any major, I wouldn't worry about Envoy. The main gimmick Envoy has is the flow. If you are assured of a call from a major in fairly short order, there are better places to be.

I'm in my 40s and am envious of the kids coming into the industry today. Young people just starting will have a very different experience than a lot of us have had. She should have a great career in aviation and yes she should be pursuing 121. All regionals have their issues... they are a starting point, not the finish line. But almost all are better than they used to be, Envoy included. If she has a passion for flying, it's what she should be doing. Envoy may or may not be the right place for her but don't steer her away from flying if it's her passion as you say.

Also should add, despite what else is said, female or not, she will not get Delta right out of college. Ignore that other post.

Some people have never gone hungry
 

It’s amazing to me the number of over-privaledged, under-experienced men and women who think because they have a piece of paper they are entitled to instant success. Hard work is exactly that, hard work, and arriving at the regionals is hardly the end of it. For those who have the character and fortitude to persevere through the hard beginning years of airline experience, a rewarding and lucrative future is theirs. For those with unrealistic expectations, as is the case with this impatient pilot, discouragement and disgruntlement usually follow when those inflated expectations pop. The rest of us are rewarded with a seniority boost.

Wow! This is a strange thread to dredge up and get on a soapbox about given the last post was nearly a year ago and the original post you're referencing is over a year and a half ago.

And from a one post wonder, no less.

Yeah, I noticed that too. I'm just not interested enough to go back and read this old thread to try to figure out what his agenda might be.

Confused
 

I’m sorry guys I guess I’m a little confused, I thought this was a forum. I just recently joined and, despite this being over a year old, comments were still being made and I thought I was welcome to state mine. Maybe if I had more than one post, my opinions would have more validity and possibly not trolled to such a level. Please forgive me if I’ve violated any of your safe places.

Sure, anyone can post anything they want to. But when you see someone who has a comment that seems to be drudging something up or taking a decidedly slanted position or otherwise have an agenda and it is their first post, it raises questions.

Read Before You Come To Envoy
 

Valid point of view in my book. That is how the wheels turn in this industry. No harm in your statement.

People are jittery here at Envoy. Jaded way too many times. AIP debacle for example has caused PTSD and trauma (so much drama in this pilot group).

"violated any of your safe places" ??? LOL

Perhaps you should re-read your post and our replies.

I think you're right that some of the points the OP brings up are a bit whiny/entitled. However, several of his points are straight up valid points for being disgruntled. And once you're disgruntled, all the other little things pile on.

And what is your definition of 'comments still being made'? Because the thread hadn't been officially closed? Ok, that's fine. It's just odd. Particularly with the one sided slant.

Cool story bro

Good lord. We are completing the mission and getting the job done, with no work actions, something our main line brothers and sisters can’t always say. We are honoring the contract and doing our best to perform safely.

With that said, we are allowed to voice our opinions. The professionalisms you preach and fortitude you claim we need has proven itself out. We get the job done and we still do it better than most, despite our current predicament . Kudos on an super old thread.

I guess that why Mainline AA SAYS IT’s TIME!



For my third home.

Surprised anyone at mainline is against us making the same as PSA. I realize it feels good to talk down to people making 1/10th of what you do, and teach them hard lessons about life etc, but honestly the less of a discount AA gets us at, the more flying/hiring is going to be at mainline as a proportion of the whole. That’s good for everyone, except those who otherwise wouldn’t be airline pilots if not for the lower hiring standards of the regionals.

I can almost guarantee that guy telling us we are spoiled brats never did a day in their life at the regional level.

Read my first response to “AA’s” posting. Pretty sure this is a troll post, maybe even Mgt. “New” to the forum and chose to post on this first? This person still only has two posts to their name, the original and “why can’t I have an opinion?” response to me questioning their agenda.

Maybe not. We have former military mainline pilots on the AA forum complaining about eagle pilots D2’ing on mainline flights.

That’s funny. Because pilots are a very small portion of the total number of D2s.

I bet those same guys don’t have a problem D2’ing on the regional partners though.

Speaking of, there is this one AA guy that commutes from the same town I do, former military too. Every time one of us Envoy guys gets the jumpseat over him because its our equipment, he goes into a loud rant that all can hear about flying ‘these people’ all over the world and he can’t even get on a flight home because of all of us other non-revs take up all the seats. Non-revs hear him, revenue passengers hear him, gate agents hear him. He’s probably one of the guys posting over there complaining.

That’s not to poke at all AA former military guys. We have others that commute too and they’re nice and respectful but your post was so close to on point for him I couldn’t help but laugh.

That’s pretty pathetic.

Yep.

/filler/

Email the jumpseat committee with his info.

This, AFTER you talk to him face to face about it and he continues to act like a child.