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-   -   Read Before You Come To Envoy (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/110240-read-before-you-come-envoy.html)

SheepDogg 01-03-2018 02:34 PM


Originally Posted by ag386 (Post 2494057)
I agree with HanSoolu. I left envoy for Allegiant 2 years ago and was told what an idiot I was for "walking away from the flow." Looks like I was correct. The flow is bogus and will never work as the envoy recruiters and salesmen claimed it would. I'm in the left seat of the Bus now. Worlds better than anything envoy has to offer.


If by "walked away" you mean fired, then yes you most certainly walked away, while crying if memory serves. I truly hope you enjoy your job at Allegiant, its likely as far as your career will every go in this industry.

itsmytime 01-03-2018 02:35 PM


Originally Posted by 3EngineTaxi (Post 2494725)
It isn't admirable or noble to "love flying" and be content with a horrible job because of a "passion for aviation." It is, in fact, a job. Some of us are trying to work toward improvements, although improvements remain unlikely. In my opinion, it remains a less-than-desirable job.

In my opinion, it is a disservice to the profession to make excuses for it's shortcomings. Instead of defending an inferior career, how about some unity toward making improvements?

Good luck to you as you pursue your career.

These are my personal opinions and not the opinions of any entity or employer.

I agree with you fully. The point is, if you love flying, it's very hard to find satisfaction sitting in a cubicle. Not that you should take whatever scraps are thrown at you.

HanSoolu 01-03-2018 02:43 PM


Originally Posted by ceelo (Post 2494704)
the problem isn't envoy if you've been at three regionals. it's you.

You're missing the point of why I wrote this post. It had nothing to do with me. Yes, I found it pertinent to add a bit of my personal history at the beginning, but you are sorely mistaken if you believe that these are my sentiments, and only mine.


Originally Posted by Cpt Rex Kramer
If you think the management at Envoy is bad, you are in for a very very rude awakening.

You assume that I had no work experience in the field prior to college. You assume that you're telling me something I don't know.
You are not. This has been a carefully calculated decision. I don't know you, but if you think you know me after reading a couple paragraphs about me, you're mistaken.

To those of you saying that I'm a "whiner:" I am not trying to complain. I'm trying to shed light on what is going on at Envoy. If anything, this is going to help you guys, as less people will be recruited. When recruitment dwindles, you will receive your beloved increase in pay.

Until then, I have no idea why some of you feel like taking your frustrations with the industry out on me.

Please. Either refute my points, add to the discussion, or move along. Attacking me as a person is not solving anything.

ceelo 01-03-2018 02:56 PM


Originally Posted by 3EngineTaxi (Post 2494725)
It isn't admirable or noble to "love flying" and be content with a horrible job because of a "passion for aviation." It is, in fact, a job. Some of us are trying to work toward improvements, although improvements remain unlikely. In my opinion, it remains a less-than-desirable job.

In my opinion, it is a disservice to the profession to make excuses for it's shortcomings. Instead of defending an inferior career, how about some unity toward making improvements?

Good luck to you as you pursue your career.

These are my personal opinions and not the opinions of any entity or employer.

except that everything is getting better. if he doesn't like envoy he should indeed find another better paying job with better QoL if he likes flying. but no, he's been through 3 regionals, so like I said it's better if he just stays out of the industry, because he will never be happy looking for the perfect regional job that frankly doesn't exist.

ceelo 01-03-2018 02:58 PM


Originally Posted by HanSoolu (Post 2494737)
You're missing the point of why I wrote this post. It had nothing to do with me. Yes, I found it pertinent to add a bit of my personal history at the beginning, but you are sorely mistaken if you believe that these are my sentiments, and only mine.

I do agree that envoy isn't the best. but in my opinion envoy is very reactionary. once hiring slows down then yes they'll change.

if you don't want this to be about you, don't add any of your personal history, period. because frankly, you do bring up a lot of good points but your entire post comes off as whining about your life.

I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors.

HanSoolu 01-03-2018 03:04 PM


Originally Posted by AZPilotMike (Post 2494352)
14. Have to say this is false, as in 100% false. I developed an upper respiratory infection in July that required I call out for three trips that month due to complications. Upon my probationary review, we discussed them and they where noted. I am off probation with a job still. It would be foolish for an airline to punish for such a thing. It would be a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Unfortunately, you can't take this to law. See Point #8 about the RLA and System Board of Adjustment. It's an unfortunate reality about the transportation industry.


Originally Posted by ceelo
except that everything is getting better. if he doesn't like envoy he should indeed find another better paying job with better QoL if he likes flying. but no, he's been through 3 regionals, so like I said it's better if he just stays out of the industry, because he will never be happy looking for the perfect regional job that frankly doesn't exist.

Your last point is true. I have no true passion for 121 Flying. I would much prefer to keep it in the world of GA and Flight Instruct on the weekends. Maybe take the wife for a $100 burger every now and then. But the 121 world? It's not for me. I'm looking for a regional that will stay true to what they put on paper. In this day and age, that just doesn't exist.

Your first sentence though. I'm gonna need you to back that up with some evidence.


Originally Posted by ceelo
if you don't want this to be about you, don't add any of your personal history, period. because frankly, you do bring up a lot of good points but your entire post comes off as whining about your life.

I merely did that for those that may be in a similar position. Either career changes, or those getting out of college. But let's be honest: pilots love talking about themselves.


Originally Posted by ceelo
I wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors.

Thank you, and thank you to those that wish me success elsewhere.

3EngineTaxi 01-03-2018 03:38 PM


Originally Posted by ceelo (Post 2494743)
except that everything is getting better

What is getting better? Vacation? Pay? Flow? Schedules? Days off? I can't think of anything.

Subpilot 01-03-2018 03:55 PM


Originally Posted by 3EngineTaxi (Post 2494771)
What is getting better? Vacation? Pay? Flow? Schedules? Days off? I can't think of anything.

Going back three years ago:
Commuter hotels
Retention bonuses
High starting salary for FOs
Short upgrade
2 bases returned

There are more but this list covers the big ones that affects the entire group in a “better” way.

ag386 01-03-2018 03:57 PM


Originally Posted by SheepDogg (Post 2494731)
If by "walked away" you mean fired, then yes you most certainly walked away, while crying if memory serves. I truly hope you enjoy your job at Allegiant, its likely as far as your career will every go in this industry.

If it helps you sleep at night to indulge in your fantasy above, by all means knock yourself out.

What's important is that I am no longer at the dirtbag company known as envoy. Like you and your recruiter salesmen like to say here, the legacy floodgates are about to be thrown wide open. I'm thinking my Bus PIC is the same or better than your regional jet PIC.

Hope you enjoy your stay at envoy waiting for that imploding flow. Looks like your wait is going to be quite a few years.

ceelo 01-03-2018 04:07 PM


Originally Posted by Subpilot (Post 2494778)
Going back three years ago:
Commuter hotels
Retention bonuses
High starting salary for FOs
Short upgrade
2 bases returned

There are more but this list covers the big ones that affects the entire group in a “better” way.

yeah, this is what i meant to everyone asking


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