New hire class sizes
 

Does anyone have info on how the class sizes are panning out? I know a few people who were planning for Envoy, but switched to Endeavor with their new contract. Hopefully the supply/demand curve prompts a pay scale that is equal, if not better. If we want to compete, we got to get in the game.

Planning on 900 new hires this year, right?

I don’t understand why they would even take the chance of having class numbers drop. Raise the pay to respond to Endeavor and don’t risk losing new hires.

LOL not with the forced upgrades, current pay scale, and pitiful reserve rules...

Last class was 58...75 scheduled for first class in January

Agreed. They're playing with fire not doing this and a couple months from now after they clear the backlog of new hires I think we will see the numbers start to drop.

I don't think we are going to have trouble with getting pilots in the door. Our only hope is that PSA and PDT struggle to get pilots. If they struggle to hire pilots then we will all likely get pay raises.

With Endeavor's new pay, flow at 9 years for someone coming to Envoy today and DFW a year away for anyone planning to be Dallas based, I don't see how it would make sense to come to Envoy at this point.

Take a quick look at history (2012-2016). I don't think they really care about attracting employess, as keeping pay low has been a primary objective. Attracting/retaining an adequate quantity of employees has historically been a lower priority objective.

In my opinion, it's naive to believe that "pay raises are just around the corner."

These are my personal opinions and not the opinions of any other entity or employer.

I think it's fair to peg it at a year from now.

I’m considering coming back to the regionals this summer if none of the majors call before then. Envoy had been my choice the whole time but now I think I’d rather go to Endeavor.

Forced upgrade to NY is my number one reason not to come to Envoy now. Plus the pay scale difference. Also the positive space on your second commute attemp is huge in my opinion.

Yes, but we have flow. That is huge!

That’s what she said.

No not really. Not for a person who has a degree. 9 years is a joke. I predict any current regional pilot can be at any major of their choosing in way less then 9 years.

In case you aren't familiar, this guy's a troll around here.

He may very well be but his/her point is valid. I think there are quicker ways to a mainline job in this market assuming you can check the boxes. Degree, clean record and enough time.

No I mean the guy bragging about flow is the troll. Of course there are quicker ways to the majors than 9 years for flow.

Oh OK, lol I get it now. Sorry for the confusion. Laughing at myself currently.

I predict that the flood gates aren't going to be nearly as wide when they raise the retirement age again. Flow is nice to have even if it is currently at 9 years. Remember, that is calculated with 0 attrition to other airlines.

They may eventually raise the retirement to 67 to be in line with SS, but that is only two years. And the number of guys who want to keep flying and actually can is going to be a lot less with this change, if and when.

My uneducated opinion only.

YMMV

And now republic has a TA likely on par with 9E

True, but it is also calculated assuming AA never has any training backlogs, and assuming classes in December every year, which they never have. Those things probably roughly cancel each other out, and 9 years is probably as accurate a guess as any other.

Also remember that every month where we hire more than 15-20 pilots is time added to the flow for a new hire. So it is 9 years and growing bigger all the time.

This is my personal opinion as well.

A few years ago we had 3300 pilots, AAG was making the largest profits in the history of airlines, and they decided to tell us they "needed" pay cuts from us or they'd liquidate the airline. The pay cuts they were willing to shutter the company over were 0.1% of one quarter's profit, from one employee group spread over 10 years. Being as stingy as possible with your pay is their default mode, beyond the point of it costing them in other ways. They will reluctantly and belatedly raise it only when the proof that they need to is overwhelming.

Anyone have any numbers on this class size and breakdown of class drop?

We hired 58 and 75 in two classes. IF and its a big IF all those pilots stayed on property their flow dates could be 8 months to more than a year apart from flow dates. This is also contingent on AA hiring more than 800 pilots no back log and our pilot group still being more than 2000 pilots.

Yep, flow will be pushing ten years very soon with these huge classes, if it isn't already.

Classes are limited to 30 starting Feb. I was told by someone who interviewed there.

How does one actually calculate their potential flow date?

Depends who you want to believe, but the Envoy ALPA website has the seniority lists with that information.

It will be hard to get 900 this year then with classes of 30 only.

I’m hoping that’s a recruiting gimmick and they can only find maybe 30 guys a class. (We are going to tell everyone we are limited to that though) ;)


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Sounds like bad info or a misunderstanding.

If that's the case. Certainly sounds like we arent understaffed. STOP THE METERING!

It’s probably due to all of the training events associated with the last bid.


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This is an unsubstantiated rumor.

I agree wth your sentiment though.

Danke /10...