High Value Aviator Program
 

It appears that the unofficial, word of mouth program that Envoy recruiting has been offering for a few months now to 121 guys and paying them a $45k sign on bonus is now official. It is now being advertised on the recruiting social media pages.
Attachment 3496

High Value Aviator Program
 

Once again screwing the guys who have been on property a while.


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Yeah. Looks like they are already starting to realize that the flow isn’t enough. I feel for those that come with this program though because they will all get shoved down the seniority list this summer when last years big new hire push all start upgrading.

Indeed. Continue to throw all of this money at guys to get them in the door. Meanwhile, the guys that have fought it out and stuck with this company in the trenches and taken 2 concessionary contracts since 2012...well they don't see a dime. I wish this company put a little more "High Value" on its aviators that have been loyal and stuck around through thick and thin.

The seniority hit will make life painful. Especially since the AA wholly owneds are not well known for their friendly reserve rules.

I am curious though. What’s first year captain pay on the 145. I said I wouldn’t do it for less than 100k, but this is probably getting close.

Nope...it's just a way to get around street captains by getting more brand new guys in here that they will continue to displace to CA.

I think part of their business model is to "churn" the pilots and keep the relative seniority low and therefore labor costs low.

aka Low Value Aviators, is the implication.

Does this imply that guys who have been employed 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 years (and earning less money than the new hires) are, in contrast, "low value" aviators?

Yes.

filler.

damn i feel sorry for y'all that have been here a while lmao

I can understand the first officer bonuses. But this program is just a SLAP in the face to the pilot group... just pay us all well and get some realistic/liveable reserve rules out and you won’t have any problem getting people to come here to be direct entry captains...

In addition this will help in house upgrading by people willingly wanting to upgrade. Right now, lots of senior FO’s are hesitant to upgrade because life can suck on reserve here, at least on the captain side.

But this is cheaper. They are always going to do what is cheaper.

Im not a 121 guy (yet :D ), but why don't they just take the money from these bonuses and utilize it to increase pay rates? I think that'll draw more folks than bonuses and flow...ie, Endeavor. Thoughts?

I was hired by Envoy during the unofficial time this was being offered...but still chose Endeavor. Envoy just doesn’t have as much to offer, even with $45,000 in bonuses. I’ll take the pay rates, the choice of upgrade, the possibility of something other than the 145LGA, and not being dual FO/CA qualified.
I like Envoy, but it’s a no-brainer right now. Hope you guys on property are rewarded eventually.

Welcome to the real world!

For what it’s worth. New CA (Current captains will dequal on there next recurrent) are no longer Right Seat Trained.

How long until the company tries to sweet talk the union into allowing street captains...


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As I tell everyone, for me, it's the way the airline treats you. If they have to label you as a "high value" aviator, that smells of desperation. The above posts are right, as soon as all the guys with 18-24 months on property start upgrading, that "value" is going to fluctuate faster than bitcoin.

EDV was the right choice. No more marketing schemes like this to try and reel me in. Good luck to those to take this hook.

It’s the unions choice about allowing street captains? I thought the company can do it even without the unions blessing.

High Value Aviator Program
 

Wouldn’t we have to have a clause in the contract to allow street captains.. I have been looking through it and can’t seem to find a clear answer.


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I think it says something like, if the company decides on street hire captains it has to discuss it with the union....in other words straight garbage language.

Edit: Found the reference 15.D.4.b. "The company will meet and confer with the ALPA MEC Chariman prior to doing so"

Hey guys we are going to hire street captains...

Union: No

Company: You don’t have a say, we met with you... check box marked.

That would be my guess in how that conversation would go.


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That’s exactly how I interpreted it also. What a joke...

Please Please Please

Do NOT fall for this high value aviation bonus crap. It sounds amazing, but no bonus here is worth how you are treated on reserve when you can go somewhere else with wayyy better reserve rules. I feel like this is the hardest thing to get through to New hires. Our reserve system is one of the worst in the country...if you come here thinking you will just be making captain pay at home while you sit rap, think again. You will be assigned airport standby everyday for 19 to 20days a month..

Now that we are officially out of qualified FOs the junior manning will begin for captains again. So dont be surprised to do 5 days in a row of airport standby then get an overnight on your last day and be junior manned into your already so little amount of days off...

Also just when you finally get senior enough on the reserve list to sit a few RAPs at home, one of our current FOs who are building there time will be forced to upgrade and then be above you pushing you back down on the reserve list again. Seriously think before you come here.

Now if we miraculously come out with an Amazing TA with a new industry leading reserve system and excellent competitive payrates then I would ask you to reconsider. Being a Line-holder here isn’t bad at all, in fact I like working here, however our pay and reserve system is extremely lacking...compared to what’s out there. Don’t let one year of bonuses fool you. It says something about the company’s character if they are only willing to give these bonus’ to new hires and not guys who have been flying these airplanes for years (<<<those guys, just get ripped out of there current bases/lifestyle and sent to NYc and Chicago unwillingly)

The contract is very clear the company can hire street captains. The only restriction is notifying the union.

Appreciate the clarity sir!


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Perfectly summed up. Pretty crappy how this deal has worked out. I have a buddy who went through Training with me that had previous 121. Chose envoy for DFW due to living there and now was forced to upgrade and after Training was now forced to LGA. He said he is going to quit and go elsewhere.

Don’t come here as a captain as you will be on reserve forever due to all the FO’s that have 300-500 more hours until upgrade.

Absolutely right!

Doing the “High Value Aviator” program is not a good deal at all. You will be High Value until you finish training and get on the line. After that you’ll be treated like a Low Value Pilot for a very long time!

I believe the moral in this company is gonna go down after this last bid.

High Value Aviator Program
 

Haha.... it’s been down with me since we got hosed for the 175s going to Compass after all the concessions we gave we got nothing. Need I say more? Remember that? The “really sweet” fleet plan?

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Well that’s true for any airline that is essentially hiring street captains.

Not true for Envoy. As long as they continue to hire 1000 hour 121 pilots then they will increase their seniority. I know many will be on reserve "longer" than FOs on reserve but they will climb the list in LGA and hold a line.

“Longer” is how long? I’d like to hear how long the projected time for these “high value” folks actually is to hold a line or to get out of LGA. I’m sure recruiting is offering up current times in lieu of any numbers with “years” at the end that are most likely.

Hold a line will take some time to see. However, most junior Chicago Captain was hired September 2017. So currently its 4 months to get the award to leave NYC.

Seriously though. If you come here for that bonus, get captain right away. Your life will SUCKKKKKK!!!! I’d rather go back to Flight instructing people that can’t speak English over sitting reserve for the next 3 years under Envoys rules...

And that’s coming from a guy that just likes flying. ;)

Who knows. That's something you can't forecast very well. There are variables that I can't accurately forecast. LGA growth. Number of NHs. Number of LGA captains that flow or go to a different airline. My guess is 6-8 months but that could be WAY off. I just don't think it's going to be years like I previously thought/predicted.

Exactly! Sitting reserve and not flying is not what I want to be doing ;) lol

And, if they are going to pull of this “HVA” program, then expect vacancy bids to come out much more frequently...probably lined up one after the other (only way to ensure people trained out of the gate as captains don’t sit around on paid vacation after training waiting for the next bid). That will enable base transfers on a more frequent/faster basis for everyone.

Not necessarily a bad thing.

Wishful thinking. No matter how many guys they have coming through the door doesn't increase the training capacity. The vacancies will continue to be published at the same rate they have been for awhile now, every three months.