The company is not seeking this. This is a false rumor started by Don in an attempt to stir things up. His life literally revolves around internet forums. It's best just to ignore his stupid comments. That is what most AA pilots do.

With Spirits new contract and other LCC to follow I may try and bypass upgrading at Envoy all together if pay doesn’t change. What would be the point? I have a degree and a clean record so my odds of getting to a mainline quicker are vastly improved by getting out of the flow.

It seems that this isn’t what management sees though and other than those that flow in the next year or two, those that have some dings on record or don’t have a degree, there isn’t much incentive to stay.

For the record I have nothing but respect for those that stuck it out with Envoy all these years and absolutely feel they have earned their respective flow dates. I don’t think I could have tolerated all of the **** they did for so many years.

I’ve been saying this all along. They need to be competitive with the LCC. Otherwise why stick around here? Guys around my seniority are “stuck” in the way that we are 6/9 months away even with metered flow.

Very slightly worse.

Someone should do a comparison of lifetime earnings at spirit vs waiting 6 years for flow to American. I'd bet more money is to be had at Spirit.

If you are a diligent investor and can make captain pretty quickly I would say it would be close enough. Especially if you factor in QOL. Hell Spirit already has 3 on 4 off mandatory in their contract. That alone is awesome.

6 year flow to AA is currently a pipe dream. Luck if we get it in 8. Not saying this can’t change tona lower number but it could also go up.

Yeah its not going to be 6 to flow for a new hire, but a lot of people on property will be flowing in 6 years or more so it'd be a good look for those in that position. Top captain will make 259 at spirit vs what 303 at American on a wide body. I think the quicker upgrade and higher pay rates for those few years your an FO would really make it close at spirit.

Those pay rates are about $20 off AA group II FO rates and $40 off CA. If one could get over to Spirit quickly, it could certainly be close if not better. Not to mention for older folks who wouldn't ever see group IV CA over at AA, that really is a good deal.

Topped out CA on a wide body at AA is $332.73 now, increasing to $342.72 next year.

Yeah it's all about the age. If you're a young guy that has time and will retire a 777/787 CA making over $30k/month, then you'll beat Spirit. But if you're older and won't see anything heavier than the 737 or bus, then an extra few years at Spirit might be financially viable. Especially with this AIP at Spirit bring a 401k DC to the table.

Meh. These rates might look good on paper but you have to remember that working for Spirit is about like working for Mesa. Abhorrent QOL, non existent work rules and having that stain on your resume will likely doom your chances for getting hired at a legacy.

Besides, would you rather tell your neighbors your work for Spirit or American Airlines.

Haha you must have spotted the troll signal in the sky just now.

Poor effort, lousy creativity.

Seems that the only thing you are good for on these forums is calling out anyone who posts a "troll."

Says the troll.

Seems that the only thing you are good for on these forums is banging your flow drum and attempting to distract from all of the negatives happening at Envoy. Your biggest sell for Envoy is the fact that you have a guaranteed opportunity to leave Envoy. Pay no attention to the QOL issues, poor schedules, forced displacements, lagging compensation, lagging vacation accrual, etc. Flow, flow, flow!

QOL is abhorrent? Care to elaborate as I have not always seen Envoy take the high road in terms of QOL. My neighbor could care less who I fly for nor would I want to be friends with a neighbor that did.

Not sure Spirit is a stain and in fact received a lot of strong support these last few months. In addition, due to the shortage and retirements coming, majors won’t be able to be so choosy as to ignore someone due to the company they flew the 319 for.

Pay Raise
 

This!!!!! I agree. Not many at AA will see widebody flying due to age, or will many care to fly international Wide body as an FO or as a Captain. Wishful thinking, not for everyone, those pay rates will not be available to everyone.

Btw, GoJet hiring will increase due to Spirits new Contract IMHO. Wait and see.
GoJet’s “flow” is looking more attractive right now. Take and look at it, you might all see the bigger picture. It’s no where close to 7-9 years to move up to Sprit neither, much much sooner. 2-4yrs. Also, those transferring years of 121 Service over for higher locked in pay rates is looks pretty attractive also. Much better Reserve rules, and soft pay. Some Truths for potential NH’s to consider before coming to ENY, lots of options to evaluate in this environment. Especially those not wanting to be forced to upgrade, and forced to commute to NYC, or be at the bottom of the CA reserve list for 1+ yrs under our current reserve rules, and contract manipulations. Come to ENY if you want but look deeply at what others are offering, and take a look at the contracts, work rules, soft pay and overall pay rates (not bonus).

Yesterday’s POS “worst” regional can be today’s best regional for pilots. Mainline hiring does not care who you flew for these days and the years to come. So many MESA & GoJet folks at mainline. Network and fly safe, mainline will be hiring a ton off the street, don’t count on flow. Serious truth is WO flow may not even exist in 1-3yrs once PP pilot Group and DOs groups flow in 1-2yrs. Crap happens in this industry. Facts. The best can become the worst ask any Eagle pilot 3yrs ago.

Not true. I know numerous pilots over there and never tell me they have horrible QOL. Non existent work rules??? Haha. You do realize you just quoted an improvement to their CONTRACT? Oh I get it, so if Spirit doesn’t have work rules, we don’t either. Go back under your rock.


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They really have that?

Yes. 10/char

And, if I remember correctly the spirit guy on our Jumpseat, during transition they are removed to give them 3/4 days off and paid for it all.

Starting to sound pretty sweet

I believe they have to have 4 off in between sequences, but I don't believe they're limited to only 3 day trips.