Pay Raise
 

I am hearing the new word at envoy is the company is going to offer raise of pay above endeavor by a little. Return is going to be union sign off on changing flow to interview requirement like endeavor.

Keep on trolling

I would take that. Flow is useless at this point.

The flow is just as much an incentive for new hires as it is a tool for management to meter/predict attrition. Think about how many people are without degrees, or have 2-3 years till they flow that are just waiting it out. It's a two way street in that regard.

That being said, management wants the flow just as much as the pilots; it's simply not going anywhere.

I wouldn’t. Flow is useless to new hires as implemented for sure, and even recent hires like me. But we don’t need to be making concessions for pay raises.

Guys/gals it was more a commentary about how the metering is screwing with the flow numbers, thus making it hard to incentivize it. I agree we shouldnt be giving things up for pay raises.

This will be the dumbest thing I've read all day. Absolutely zero chance that flow is given up for pay rates.

Ironically, rondonq posted this exactly three hours after someone mentioned (as an opinion) something similar in another thread. A lot of people have come to Envoy for the flow, do not be fooled. It is a retention tool. If the flow is decreased A LOT of people will be out of here and going to LCC's. Doubtful it could even be considered.

Exactly. All the clowns on here that constantly talk about how useless flow is (most of whom are at airlines without one) would see just how valuable it is, as folks head for the door and stop showing up to class.

Flows a joke. Also anyone that wouldn’t want more money in exchange to doing an interview at AA probably has skeletons in their closet and doesn’t deserve to work there anyway.

I have no skeletons in my closet but this would be a non starter for me. 20k a year would be nice, but don't think in this environment we should be giving anything up to come up to endeavors rates.

If you don't pass an interview this dealing with Envoy's QOL can become permanent.

No skeletons, just an associate degree instead of a Bachelors. Plus go over to the Endeavor forum and look how good that guaranteed interview is. They have a worse acceptance rate than street hires.

Uhhh Hell No! I want my flow. Why get raises here? If you want to make money, FLOW or apply to any other major.

Because the extra $20-30k a year for the next 9 years, (the current projected flow)is way better?

The flow assumes everything stays the same as of now or improves.

Anyone that stays more than 5yr in a Regional have issues. Either skeletons in the closet or no degree.

You are a troll master I will give you that. Nearly every captain at Envoy has been there longer than 5 years.

Not happening until classes get down to 20-30 a month. Next topic....

I have been with the company for a few years now. Not a captain and won't be for a bit. For me the flow does not hold the value it does to the captains that have been on property for more than 5 years. I would hate to see the flow taken away from those guys. They have earned it. They paid their dues numerous times. So to the people who are throwing the ridiculous idea of giving up the flow for more money, with all due respect, just stop commenting.

Respectfully

Essayon

Agreed. Can we get 175 driver to stop commenting?

Not unless your can go back in time and have his father pull out, or his mother withdraw $350 from the ATM and make an extraction trip to Planned Parenthood.

Why raise pay when they have 70 in class?

To keep the ones already here.

To attract street captains

This is how we get our much deserved raise. Unfortunately if we do get a raise it’s because it’s the only thing that’ll incentivize a qualified 121 pilot to jump ship or come out of their current non-flying job that’s paying better than what our captains are getting paid right now. I don’t think a massive up-front bonus will be enough to get what Envoy truly needs here. It’ll attract some, but not enough. Don’t forget they still need to attract FOs to, just as bad as captains. We got them with a double-whammy right now and should take advantage of it.

Sounds like you guys are caught between the proverbial rock and a hard place.

On one hand, it sounds like the company wants to sell you higher pay rates in exchange for bringing Envoy more in line with Delta and United adding the interview requirement. Read into that as you like but it should allow them to keep more of you on Envoy property as they really need you. As it stands now, the flow is all but useless except for those that are within striking distance, inside of 12 months or less for their "projected" flow date.

On the other hand, if you buy these higher rates you lose the "true no interview flow," however again except for those at the very, very top right now, the flow is all but worthless anyway.

Either way, it appears that your stay at Envoy will be extended and the harsh working conditions show no signs of letting up.

The company needs X nUmber of CAs right now. They would rather fill the need of getting CAs through a one time signing bonus instead of raises for everyone. In a yearish from now we will have lots of FOs getting a 1000 hrs and no need for the high value program.

New flash. Pilots are not leaving Envoy as fast as other regional airlines including other WO sister carriers. The company will not budge until hiring stops, attrition increases, and our services become unreliable to AAG. Y’all want money. Let your voice and action be heard. Fill out apps for the Majors.
I think better QOL and CA rates would be a proactive measure to keep the lateral airline guys coming for a while.
Fly Safe!

There's no talk of an interview requirement, what are you babbling on about.

We’re you smoking crack or drinking when you posted this?

He just took one troll post and ran with it without even thinking it might be BS. This is why this guy is completely reactionary and unreliable.

Yea. Like the PPs will give up flow.

Ain’t no pay raise that can make us give up flow. They’ll need the raise to get street CAs. Just wait.

Hell no. There is absolutely no reason we should give up anything for raises. That’s complete BS and if it is true the union is in talks about this, a recall is and should be in order.


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I currently fly for Endeavor and have more than enough time to qualify for the bonus (will be upgrading here in the coming months). Would be nice to get $45,000 put a down payment on a house and pay off my high interest car loan, not to mention I have to buy my gf a car. However, after that money is gone, Envoy CAs make peanuts compared to what an Endeavor CA makes now. If the flow takes 10 years I'm not going to spend 10 years being poor. I read this forum and comment at times to get information and keep an eye on developments with you guys, but it really seems like Envoy is still able to attract plenty of people who don't care so much about getting paid, which is the problem with pilots in general. And even at EDV, the retention bonuses were a dumb way to get paid, your bi-weekly paycheck as an FO before this month was still at a rate of $27,000 a year, which is not enough to live on, and you have to wait four months for each bonus. People need to wake up and demand actual pay none of these bonus gimmicks. But I guess pilots love airline management so much we'll keep undercutting eachother and setting pay standards low so we can provide billionaires with cheap labor and better bottom lines.

It's not true.

Nothing needs to be given up for pay raises. If the airline wants to continue to operate in the way it wants to, they will give the pay raises when they need to. AAG doesn't do anything until they absolutely have to.

IMO they will absolutely have to very soon. The company blew their FO displacement load with this bid and they won't have nearly enough qualified captains on the next bid.

This will solve everyone’s problem.

Step 1. Match or exceed Endeavors pay scale.

Step 2. Sacrifice a bit of growth for flow and stop metering.

Step 3. Fix QoL schedule issues and RSV, including how both pilots and schedulers interact with each other.

If your employees want to sell where they work they will tell their buddies.

I don't think the PPs are going to cave. It's your union management that will put the hard sell on this to get 51%. In exchange, everyone up to the MEC seniority keeps the current flow agreement.

There's no discussion!! Stop spreading this bullcrap.

I know it’s not. But some who don’t know better won’t know what to think. I’ve personally questioned this with the MEC. This is their response:

I have Absolutely not heard even a molecule of this. And it's a non starter for me.


And it doesn't make sense. AAG won't give us EDV/RAH rates until we NEED them, and when we need them, they'll have minimal strings. Like the FO retention.


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Way to go spirit! May not be a bad option anymore!


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You are literally just making stuff up now.