I live in DFW. I chose EDV.
 

I interviewed at both Envoy and EDV. I live in the DFW area. I just wanted to share my experience and why I chose EDV.

Envoy:

Interview was laid back, the volunteer captains who run the show were very professional, but didn't sugarcoat anything. They addressed the 8-9 year flow and told us about how everything works in the presentation.

The technical and HR interviews didn't seem all that serious. It seemed like more of a box checking exercise than a real screening process. Free lunch is always nice.

The paperwork was kind of brutal. They had about 3x what was required at EDV.

Endeavor:

Very similar format to Envoy, in that it consists of a presentation, HR and technical interviews, and paperwork. Overall, I felt that the management at Endeavor really valued their people more than those at Envoy. It's subjective, but I felt there was more cohesion at Endeavor between the employees and the process. The HR questions were a little more in depth.

Anyways, both offered a conditional job offer, but Endeavor gave me a class date on the spot. I have yet to here back from Envoy, but I will decline the class date.

Even though I will never be based at home with Endeavor, there are a few things going for them:

A. No bonus (except IOE). I won't have to repay any bonus if I am lucky enough to have a major call me within 2 years. Bonus is already rolled in.

B. Longevity. Captain pay is 20k/year higher, if I don't get the call from a major.

C. Commuter policy. I will be stuck in NY or ORD with Envoy for around a year or so. Endeavor's 2nd positive space commuter policy is a big deal. If I can hold ATL, I really won't have to worry about getting to work, although getting back might be a problem. I can always just bid NYC and not worry about it, either way.

D. Schedules. They are a lot better at Endeavor.

It seems like Endeavor gets it and Envoy doesn't, and that is basically what it comes down to. I'd rather commute to work and have a better schedule and pay than live in base and be miserable.

Enjoy commuting! Glad you're happy with your decision.

If this had happened 2 years ago, I would have said that you were an idiot. Today, it's a bit tougher to ridicule your decision. With the exception of the commute, I see no reason why Envoy would be the better choice at this point. Congrats~

I honestly don't think you made a bad decision. Your observations used in your decision making are spot on. Obviously you will be paid much better, have far superior schedules, and have much better work rules. The general consensus from those I've spoken with that have left Envoy, and other regionals alike, and went to EDV is that the management team there actually appreciate you, value you and treat you like an important member of the team. That is worth a ton. EDV is the place to be right now, no question about it.

You made the correct decision. You would have commuted at Envoy at some point anyways. Schedules are not near as good here, and you are no more then a number here. Same everywhere, but at least other places try to make it seem not so. Envoy should not be the 1st choice between the 2 ever, until things improve here.

Mic drop BOOM

Yup good choice. Envoy at some point would’ve forced you to commute. Countless guys I fly with that have waited 2+ years to get back to DFW

You made an excellent choice. Endeavor is a perfect airline to be at and has absolutely nothing wrong with it. I heard that when they forced concessions down their pilots' throat a few short years ago that they called each individual pilot and personally apologized because they valued their pilots so much. I even heard that an airline named Pinnacle was one of the first airlines to start a massive race to the bottom in concessionary contracts, driving the whole industry down with it. Then, out of the kindness of their hearts, management decided to offer crazy bonuses to make it up to their pilots.
Their are absolutely zero unhappy pilots at Endeavor. You will enjoy commuting and you are definitely going to get hired at a legacy anyway within a few years because you have more experience and are a much better pilot than the 16,000 pilots that have their applications in with the legacies.
Thank you for enlightening all of us.

So when did the union ask you to write this? ;)

Best of luck on your decision. When is your class date?

Good decision if you ask me. Endeavor is better all around.

I would probably do the same thing in your position, thanks for sharing

A thoughtful and accurate assessment...well done! Don’t think I’ve ever seen a unanimous opinion on this forum and I agree. I prefer our flight benefits, medical premiums and the 175 and that’s it. QOL has deteriorated even in my short time here. YOU ARE just a number at Envoy. A couple of examples:

1- When you finish training and pass the checkride, it’s a big deal and accomplishment in your life. Envoy showed zero enthusiasm and in fact I had to track down a set of wings later so my uniform was complete.

2- I expected an email from the CP welcoming me aboard and a congrats on finishing training; nope, nothing. You are a model number rolling down the assembly line at Envoy.

3- I’ve never seen nor heard the CEO of our company speak in any capacity in my time here. How about a quarterly company video or audio of him discussing company performance, policy changes, job well done, improvements we need to make? The word that comes to mind.....apathy.

^^^^this is all true for me and many others as well.

But, I got an email congratulating me on my year anniversary. So someone up there must care.

Envoy Automaton 3.5.63.4 cares! He will also send you an email minutes after you call out sick to clear your sick call and also when your medical is about to expire.

Envoy needs to get their sh!t together.

On their own forum here we have countless people saying "I chose EDV" or "whatever you do DONT come here"

when will it get better? will it ever get better?

It will get better when they increase pay, give us decent schedules that are remotely efficient and improve reserve rules. Pretty simple really.

I bolded the only part of your post I disagree with. QOL has been bad here for years.

He/she would have had to commute for a while anyways at ENY.

As many has said it’s a good decision to select EDV is job is offered at both. Plus EDV seemed more organized in projecting and offering a class date on the spot! Smart move taking it. EDV is a superior regional IMHO if you look at the data.

Yes, lots of pilots commute. Nothing enjoyable about it. Nothing enjoyable about deployments either, but you do what you have to do for your family, career, and future.

So...never?

Pretty much this. Unless people stop coming here.

News flash... no airline is going to send you flowers and chocolates for finishing training. You’re just a number. The sooner you figure that out the easier life will be.

Exactly. But the new generation has to be told that they are doing a good job every step of the way or their feelings get hurt.

Congrats on getting the CJO here at EDV. but I hate to break it to you but you are also just a number here. They really pour on the kool aid thick here. The disconnect from upper management and line pilots is very real. They actually tell new hires if they wear the hat they will get the job at delta. If I lived in DFW it would be a no brainer to go to Envoy...commuting is the devil. Appearance versus reality are two very different things here right now and you will find that out very quickly.

"But...but...I thought EVERYBODY got a trophy!"
"No little Johnny, you got your a$$ kicked in this game...welcome to real life."

Well to be fair the trophy generation was started with the boomer parents ;)

But yeah, this guy expecting more is pretty hilarious. Personally I would prefer that the CPO not know me and think of me as just a number.

One of the most concise “give me a double-helping of that **** sandwich” answers I’ve seen. The consensus is Endeavor management is doing a better job in people skills.

Oh please, mainlineAF is right. Endeavor is no different and their CP and is not out calling all new hires congratulating them for passing their training as part of their job. They are better than us in some areas for sure, but to say our management should be throwing parties or making personal calls to congratulate new hires is ridiculous.

And as the past has constantly shown that things change very fast in the airlines, especially the regional's. And today's sub-par regional can quickly go to the best and vice-versa.

Who the said anything about parties, chocolates or flowers? Stick with what I said not some extreme exaggeration you can dream up. If you can accurately quote me and provide a fair counterpoint please do.

Sorry, you're right...management should show a great deal of "enthusiasm" for your "accomplishment." Would you like the CP to welcome 100ish guys per month personally with a phone call or email after the checkride or completing IOE?

For points 1 and 2, if you expect that at any airline and you're looking for someone to pat you on the back for finishing a training event, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. Get used to it. Completing training is honestly not that big of a deal. It's doing your job.

For point 3, I agree that our President could communicate better to the employees.

An example that comes to mind is write an email to welcome them to our base, congratulate them for their accomplishment and set a tone of goals and expectations that were in line with AA. Delegate the sending of the email to the admin to all new people to the base. How long does it take to copy and paste 20 names that just joined our base. I’m not talking about company wide.

^^^ This ^^^

Your numbered comments yesterday caused me to ask my friends at Southwest and Delta if their company’s did anything of the sort. I though maybe having spent my career at Eagle and now AA, that I was somehow missing something more common in the industry outside this corporation. Well, their answers were no. Nothing even remotely close to that at either airline. AAL is the same. No email, no congrats, no nothing from anyone in any sort of management position. The Checkairman, of course, give you a big smile and a handshake, and all that, but that’s it.

Honestly, what would amount to a form letter, which is all they could really do if they were to even consider this, would be something I’d roll my eyes at anyway.

Bigtime209

I appreciate your contributions here and like the read but your overstating what I said. Did I say I needed someone to come give me a pat on the back? Let me state this again in other words. Is sending the quick example email above to a new pilot and making sure our process provided everything a pilot needs to safety and in the image of Envoy/AA giving them “ flowers and chocolates”?

I learned yesterday that when Pedro first started he was a communicator and did the things I criticized but was told by AA to knock it off. If true.., I’d like to apologize for that comment.

Dude you did your job. Congratulations. You should start a new tradition of cutting off the back of your shirt once you finish sims and hanging it in the training center with your signature.

You’re a cog in a gigantic machine. Same as you’d be at endeavor, delta, AA, SWA, etc. Show up, don’t crash, go home, cash check. That’s it.

You guys win!! I’m tapping out!!! Lol

That's true, and who cares about some dumb phone call pat on the back. The real issue though is whether envoy is more apt to violate the contract when it suits them, punish fatigue calls, etc. Those are real concerns.

^^^ THIS ^^^ shouldn’t be an issue, as we should have real chief pilots and not chief kiss mgmt a$$.

But we don’t so you’re right. Become a number and nothing more.