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Originally Posted by wiz5422
(Post 2506833)
I am not saying shut up and take it, I am saying stop b!tching so much, all I here from new hires is how bad things are. Yes things are bad but what I was trying to say is that there was a time when things were a lot worse then they are now, and those that experienced it are the ones you are complaining to. They understand and then some.
What I also think is funny is when people are shocked when things change in this industry from what they were expecting..If anything, change has always existed in aviation and it changes overnight. So having to commute is normal in ones airline career. Also so many complain but do nothing about it, they continue to not understand the contract, make scheduling adhere to it, continue to help the company by going above and beyond etc. |
Originally Posted by Jersdawg
(Post 2506823)
The 2010 hires will be (hopefully) done 3rd quarter of 2019 (9 year flow). There were a lot of 2011 hires and it will take until mid-2020 to get through them (8.5-9 year flow). In 2021 it will drop to around 6.5 years - the 2012/13 hires will go quickly and we will be into the 2014 hires.
So yes, it will drop, but it will be 2021 before it really begins to start dropping. |
Originally Posted by Jersdawg
(Post 2506823)
The 2010 hires will be (hopefully) done 3rd quarter of 2019 (9 year flow). There were a lot of 2011 hires and it will take until mid-2020 to get through them (8.5-9 year flow). In 2021 it will drop to around 6.5 years - the 2012/13 hires will go quickly and we will be into the 2014 hires.
So yes, it will drop, but it will be 2021 before it really begins to start dropping. |
Originally Posted by cr700
(Post 2506850)
Thanks for making my point. The flow absolutely has value and works exactly as advertised.
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Originally Posted by Subpilot
(Post 2506872)
He didn’t finish the timeframe. After it momentarily drops to 6 years, it starts shooting right back up and anyone hired today has 10 years to flow.
Filler |
Originally Posted by cr700
(Post 2506850)
Thanks for making my point. The flow absolutely has value and works exactly as advertised.
The new normal. Real value presented to you by UAL, AA, DAL, and ALPA. GMAFB. Thanks. |
Originally Posted by cr700
(Post 2506850)
Thanks for making my point. The flow absolutely has value and works exactly as advertised.
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Originally Posted by cr700
(Post 2506697)
I thought you guys were against "negotiating in public" but I've been seeing a lot of it on here.
Suddenly just because Endeavor gives pay raises, everybody here thinks they are immediately entitles as well. You have to remember the value of what we do have that Endeavor does not. Flow. The world changed when endeavor changed their pay. Knife cuts both ways. |
Originally Posted by Cpt Rex Kramer
(Post 2506493)
Forced upgrade to a different airframe AND domicile just to sit reserve is complete and absolute BS. If the upgrade is forced, a pilot should at the very minimum be able to keep their domicile.
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Originally Posted by DollaBillz
(Post 2507013)
Honestly I think it's bordering on a safety issue. You're taking a guy that came from flight instructing on a Cessna with the bare minimum of multi time, he gets FO 175 DFW, and then force him to upgrade at the bare minimum of 1,000 hours (when he was able to hold a line almost instantly, meaning that 1,000 hours came real quick) into different, worse equipment (145) in a domicile he's never even flown through (LGA), and guaranteed to be paired with a new hire FO that knows nothing. To me it's crazy. Hope that poor guy pays attention in training...
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For those of you who weren't around during this timeframe, this was about the time morale was at an all time low...
https://www.dallasnews.com/business/...ional-carriers |
Yep, that and the two base closures.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
From the article: “This transfer is solely driven by forecasts showing an insufficient number of pilots at Envoy in 2015 to operate our planned schedule."
Seems like they're doing their best to back themselves into the same corner. |
Originally Posted by bigtime209
(Post 2506280)
Things have already come back down from mainline. Pay raises are already approved by AAG. Envoy management is the one not acting.
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Originally Posted by ju10489
(Post 2507515)
How do you know that?
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Originally Posted by Ijustlikeflying
(Post 2507519)
He doesn’t
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I think morale is low again but it isn't the lowest. Let's not forget how bad schedules were a year and a half ago with no commutability and so many 4 on 2 offs in every line (although it appears the CRJ still sees this but I'm not on that equipment and don't follow their lines very often) on top of lost weekends (a 12 hour 4 day is pathetic). Yeah, sure, pay for FOs improved but that was ONLY done because it favored management so let's not think for a second that they did that out of the kindness of their hearts. Same thing with base re-openings.
I think a lot of divisiveness with management could be lessened if they laid off with the micromanagement and scare tactics and actually tried to engage the pilot group positively. Given the current climate, the ball is in our court. And it appears to stay that way for awhile. |
Originally Posted by bigtime209
(Post 2507520)
Yes I do. ALPA has already said as much.
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Originally Posted by Ijustlikeflying
(Post 2507768)
No you don’t.
/10/ |
I’m still decently new to the industry, and all due respect here... but it seems like this whole “you don’t know how bad it used to be, just suck it up and be happy for the not-as-********* schedule/pay that you do have” attitude is the reason we are still where we are. You can starve a dog in a box all it’s life and it’ll think it’s king of the world on a 3-foot chain with a shred of shoe leather.
Sure it definitely used to be worse and times were different, but now there is plenty of room at the top treat us respectfully. |
Originally Posted by bigtime209
(Post 2507520)
Yes I do. ALPA has already said as much.
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Originally Posted by ju10489
(Post 2508002)
I actually heard the opposite from the union. Can you show us an email or something?
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Originally Posted by Jersdawg
(Post 2508028)
It was said on a conference call after the rsv loa was released. I heard it as well. I don't think there's a recording of it. If they're backtracking on it, that's on them - they said it live and on the air.
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