Met with Recruitment and confused.
 

Hi all this is my first post sub so I apologize if this question has been asked.

I recently spoke with Envoy Recruitment and I’m not really sure if they were blowing smoke up the a** or no. To reference I’m a CFI at a major flight school still around 700 hours off from 1500. With that being said let me continue.

1. When speaking to them about the cadet program they mentioned that there is over 300 active pilots who came out the cadet program. Is this true? Is the cadet program really worth it?

2. When I browsed the forums I asked about overstaffing and what that means for me and there answer was “ Envoy has a plan and there is a reason for it” ( sounds like a BS management answer but also not so sure)

3. When asked about pay and whether it will be met to Republic and Endeavor they answered Envoy isn’t having problems hiring therefore it isn’t on the books??????? (Made no sense to me)

So with all that being said is Envoy gonna be a place of the future or should I start looking else where. They were really pushing towards me applying at the cadet level but I’m getting mixed thoughts from the forums and messages to Recruitment.

Thanks, Sloneckozzz


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Why pay more if there isn’t a shortage? I hope they have a plan for all these guys on reserve. Perhaps they will double the flow this year to clear out the fat. We all know that’s not going to happen

1. If you end up going to Envoy and you do not join the cadet program you are just throwing away money. The only question-Is a Envoy for you?
300 sounds true. It's been going on since 2014 and I know several people who have gone through.

2. I'm not sure what the plan is but I think there's something that has to be in the works. At least I hope.

3. Envoy will only raise pay if they can't hire enough pilots. So NO we do not get Endeavor or Republic rates.

They get all the warm bodies they need paying 38 an hour, why should they waste money paying 45 or 50 for the same warm bodies?

Blowing smoke? I don’t think so. I’m of the opinion recruitment doesn’t have a roadmap for the future and working off the best information they have at the time. The pilot group is left in the dark on any real plans. A healthy dose of sceptisizm is a good thing but I’d dial it back a bit.

As for coming here, you have time to sit on the sidelines and note changes but in general I would look closely at other regionals, mainly Endeavor. Our pay is falling further and further behind the industry and at present there is little to no premium pay opportunities. Guys at Mesa make $2.00 hour less but their W2 at the end of the year will be double or triple an Envoy FO’s. Just an example of pay, not saying Mesa is a better place to be.

Go to Endeavor; they value you there
 

Poor Pay

Poor QOL

No OT

Forced Commute

No care for pilot group

Go to Endeavor were they value you

LVA MEGA

Wish this wasn’t true. Also, we get whatever the other regionals don’t want for destinations. You land, van ride to hotel and in the room you go until wake up call. Slam, click.

Man they must make a ton of money over there at MESA then.... 120k as an FO. Sounds pretty good.

I was in a position similar to you and ended up choosing Envoy for a variety of personal reasons that wouldn't be in play for most people (family in both Envoy and AA flight depts). My advice, knowing nothing about your situation other than what you've already told us, is to either join Envoy as a cadet or don't join Envoy at all right now.

However, if you do not have a 4 year degree and cannot or will not get one (or are otherwise not a competitive applicant for street hire at the real airlines), consider Envoy, PSA, or Piedmont very carefully.

What if their plan is to build up a big surplus of bodies to ride out the attrition of having uncompetitive pay for the next 5 years?

:D

Well they can’t say that and restrict flow so they have to have a different stated “plan”

I am planning to get the 4 year degree while I’m flying, I’m doing everything online I recently started this year and so far so good. I was thinking that maybe the flow can be considered as a insurance.


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Another item to consider is that the Cadet/pipeline pilots get first picks of the available aircraft and bases in your new hire class. FYI

The flow is insurance of attrition of very senior captains, it's really nice in that way no matter how you feel about the "guaranteed AA job" its advertised as.

I'd probably interview at Endeavor if you are into the east coast before you commit to anything. The main issue with Endeavor is that you'll be waiting a long time for a class date after you interview, not a problem for you since you still have time to build. Not saying they're definitely better than Envoy, but a conditional offer from them will really help you consider one from Envoy in a balanced way.

This is why I wouldn't consider Envoy at all without being a cadet. I'd have gotten ORD out of class (and not the LGA death sentence) if they were still doing it the way they were doing it when I signed my particular non-cadet binding agreement.

Met with Recruitment and confused.
 

Go somewhere else.. Crew Scheduling here makes up whatever rules they want. The commute to LGA is awful, when it’s your last day don’t expect to get something that will allow you to commute home early enough in the day. Expect to commute the night before for your default 0400 reserve start. Expect to be home 2 nights a week if your lucky. Only come here if you live in Base or plan to move to base. Pay is sub par. You will get 4 commuter hotels which sometimes takes 3 hours to get.

Also... How do you feel about being lied to on the regular?


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That may be doable but the FO friend I have there made $9k in Feb. I made $2900.00 hence the 3x. Mesa has 200% and 300% OT frequently and also pays 12 hours if you come in on a day off and sit reserve.

Go where they value loyalty most.

Answered.....

Well that is impressive! I'd sit reserve for 12 hours pay.

Better than picking up a trip. You’d have to have an eight hour day at 150% to equal that. And how many of those do you see in open time?

I’m a new Mesa FO recently off IOE this is true, but it’s only 300% no 200%, with the 300% I ended up with 149 credit hours this past month, plus my base earned a $1,000 attendance bonus if you had perfect attendance, normally just $500 for individual attendance. With per diem around $500 I’m grossing around $6,864 this month. I didn’t sit reserve 300% any.

This doesn’t include the $30,000 gross bonus for completing training I recently received. Yes you can sit reserve shift for 12 hours pay if you have 5 hours flight and 10 flight duty available, so that’s $36 x 12= $432 to sit reserve on your day off :). Our issue is training delays but once through you can get a line pretty much right away at the moment or in 1-2 months!

The pilots I heard of last six months moving on are going to the likes of Delta, United, Spirit, Frontier, Jet Blue, Southern Air, Western Global etc.... Captains and FO’s all getting hired.

Mesa sounds real good. Hey union where u at ? 🦗

I’ll add several Captains I flew with recently, some were averaging $12,000 to $15,000 per month if they knew how to work the open time correctly. Yeah Mesa sometimes gets a bad rap but if you take it for what it’s worth, work hard to get your hours, it’s a good alternative stepping stone as long as we have 300% open time.

YMMV but none of this is an exaggeration

Thank you for the up to date info!

My guess is they have some large expansion planned. That’s why they stocked up on FO’s and now want 300 DEC’s.

Would be nice of them to share it as moral is rather low..


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You act like expansion is a good thing for moral. The pilot group is the one that pays the price for their expansion. More metered flow, QOL hits as staffing takes a hit once the expansion begins, further drop requests denied, POs/PVDs denied, JMs galore. It'd be in our best interest to just stabilize and take care of what we've currently got on the plate and get back QOL items that get "denied due to staffing".

Met with Recruitment and confused.
 

I’m at Envoy, and people **** on MESA often here. I have to keep reminding those I fly with and during pay discussions or industry discussions that MESA has better QOL work rules and soft pay than Envoy!
It’s funny how some here talk $@it about Mesa. Lmao!

This is not the same regional industry of pre2013, 2014 or 2015.

Yep. I've been enlightened in this thread. I knew our contract was garbage but hoped other' would be too. Live in DFW go to MESA. New York Endeavor. Miami or Chicago Republic.

Not even piedmont?


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Isn’t that the norm already.. every perk you mention “denied do to staffing”

Oh wait I just got junior manned the other day.. (normal)

We are still metering the flow, will never change.

We have way to many FOs as if they over staffed while they could, so they can now slow it down and say it’s because we have to many fos and not because everyone is going to the other Regionals for better QOL, work rules, and pay.


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Got your app in over there?

Are you kidding me? Their health insurance is stupid expensive. You will need that bonus to pay for it.

Paid for ...next!!

Just face it our contract is now the weakest in the regional industry.

While I agree that our contract is garbage, from personal experience I would say Commutair is the worst. By a lot.

While our contract has lots of room for improvement, I’d still rather be here than Mesa. I’m also willing to bet that these “several captains” who “know how to work the open time” are also working their ass off with 8 days off a month to make that amount of money. Your average pilot at Envoy is far better off than Mesa. Yes, outliers will exist of course.

Met with Recruitment and confused.
 

If I was new to 121 in today’s climate.... Yes I would have may App in at Mesa today.

I know I will not need the flow to get to a major in 4-5 years from now which is when I’m suppose to “flow.” If the hiring spree stops flow or not we are all stagnant industry wide. Today I have the work ethics and drive to get hired off the Street vs waiting 4-5yrs. I don’t expect to be at Envoy that long, I’m going to do my absolute best as if the “FLOW” did not exist.

If this was 2 years ago, with present day comparison btw Mesa & Envoy... I would have chosen Mesa! There is a ego at Envoy I’ve noticed amongst the pilot group that think because we have the flow we are better than any other regional our there. False pride and assumption.

Lets look at some facts. More Mesa pilots are hired off the street than Envoy/Eagle pilots are at other mainline carriers (Outside the 11 year pilots currently flowing, not projections).... FACTS. Some of you “think” Mesa sucks, and have a bad rep huh??? Really is that so? Then why are more of them getting picked up (percentage wise) by mainline carriers overall? I’m talking big 4 + Big2 cargo (UPS & FedEX) & the others like Hawaiian/JetBlues etc. Our pilot group is sooo much better than their pilot Group huh? Ok. Carry on with ignorance.

Facts don’t lie, people do. Lots of assumed pride and ego thanks to Flow. Needs to stop.

Compare Apple to apples... without the carrots. Mesa has the leg up. FACTS.

I’m not to prideful to admit that.

Don’t you think if envoy didn’t have a flow, that there would be just as many pilots from envoy going to the majors/cargo?? The flow keeps a ton of pilots stuck to envoy for multiple reasons. I don’t think you can compare Mesa and envoy in that respect.