Airline Pilot Central Forums - CA Shortage Critical

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- Envoy Airlines (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/)

- - CA Shortage Critical (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/113177-ca-shortage-critical.html)

Cadet Academy | American Airlines

I'll leave this right here...

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Originally Posted by ordflyer8794 (Post 2579052)

Cadet Academy | American Airlines

I'll leave this right here...

How is this any different from what’s already going on?

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Originally Posted by havick206 (Post 2579114)

How is this any different from what’s already going on?

Offering the lending?

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Originally Posted by flysooner9 (Post 2579138)

Offering the lending?

The flight instructors are called AA cadets.

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Originally Posted by Pedro4President (Post 2579154)

The flight instructors are called AA cadets.

They all ready are. At least at the school I went to.

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Originally Posted by ordflyer8794 (Post 2578692)

I recently started updating my logbook and getting my resume ready. My apps will be out the day they announce a slow of the flow. Enough.

Why wait? Get your apps in now. If/when someone calls for an interview and gives you a job offer, THEN decide whether or not to stay with Envoy and what they do with the flow. If you wait, it is that much more seniority gone by.

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Originally Posted by havick206 (Post 2578827)

What are you smoking? Money is the answer, in pay rates and not in form of a bonus in addition to better reserve rules.

Street CA’s aren’t coming here because they can get better money elsewhere.

From our perspective as pilots, it is. But the company would have to pay EVERYONE more if they raise pay. Why should the raise pay and pay DFW or ORD captains more when they can continue to band aid things for much less? Forced upgrades, HVAs, TDYs, junior man, canceled vacations and squeezing the flow all cost much less.

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Originally Posted by 402FreightDog (Post 2579205)

Why do these threads even start up. These threads are just as annoying as the company saying flow in 5.5 years.

The only good advice put out in this thread is to have your apps out. We know there will be an uptick in attrition if they mess with the flow. Why are we complaining and worrying about something that hasn't even happened.

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Originally Posted by CaptJackSparrow (Post 2578914)

Let's not forget that it was the company that put themselves in this position. I would argue that it can't be considered "operational necessity" when the company purposely ran out half the pilot group and put themselves in this mess. In the event that this actually happens, maybe it is finally our wake up call to band together.

You could argue that... but you’d be wrong and you’d lose. The real problem is approving a “contract” with terms like operational necessity that are undefined. ****ty contracts with ambiguous language are impossible to enforce especially in an arbitration environment. We need to git gud at writing contracts aka lawyer up. This is what happens when non-lawyers write “contracts”.

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Originally Posted by ag386 (Post 2578982)

One example is metering to 25 no matter what. The contract states half of AA classes will be Envoy through the end of the PP group. With the large numbered classes over the past year and looking at retirements and class sizes going forward, Envoy pilots come out on the losing end.

As an example, say the classes are 60/month all year. With the metering to 25, 60 Envoy pilots during this hypothetical year would be denied their flow and place on the AA seniority list.

As we all know, the airline pilot life is built on seniority. It's not good enough just to eventually make it to AA when hundreds of guys come off the street above you because Envoy managers decided to interpret the contract to their benefit and not yours.

We have had this discussion before. The wording is terribly confusing. Smarter minds than I on the agreement have stated the full wording legally means half or 25, whichever is LESS. They say your interpretation is mistaken.

As the summary APPEARS to be worded, it is half or 25, whichever is GREATER. (I wish it was worded more clearly.)

Let’s say at peak retirement AA hires 160 per month (within the realm of possibility). This interpretation would mean 80 Envoy Pilots would flow every month. At that rate, pretty much every non-lifer CA would flow in a year. That would cause Envoy to completely collapse. Ask yourself, would this be what the contractual people would have agreed upon? It would not make sense.

Further, if this interpretation is correct, where is the greavance / lawsuit?