You’ll do what your obligated to do IAW the FAR’s or you won’t be welcomed in my jumpseat. I don’t have to give you a ride. If I ask you to talk on the radio so that I can work through an emergency with my f/o, you’d better clear your throat and get to gettin. There’s no time for attitude or ego during those scenarios.

This behavior should not go unchecked any more than the fellow’s that was the subject of the first post. Sometimes we all need a good reminder of how we should be conducting ourselves, and mainline or not, should get the “talk” just like anyone else.

It’s not necessary to be a tool. Just be polite and professional. Everyone is so rushed and hurried these days and we’ve lost so much civility in the way we conduct ourselves, some may not be aware of what they are doing and how they are coming off.

A quick dose of reality may be the medicine needed, and you are almost guaranteed to get a sincere apology and probably a thank you when they realize what they are doing. If the guy or gal wants to look down their nose and get all huffy, so be it. Just report it to the jumpseat committee.

I wouldn’t worry about tit-for-tat, as there are probably a whole lot more “mainline” folks needing rides to work. Besides, people who act like that really are the minority.

Antiquated system or not, it is our system and these are the expectations within it. As a group, pilots are better off being able to self-police each other, rather than having others become involved and tell us what to do.

If you are okay with letting jumpseaters with a cabin seat do their own thing, that’s personal style. But when you let them get away with the flagrant stuff, you are hurting our profession.

At the end of the day, people just want get to their destination safely and on time. However, year after year in polls, pilots are consistently ranked highly by the public in terms of trustworthiness and respect, right up there with police officers, firefighters, teachers, nurses, and the military. It’s up to us to keep it that way.

There is strength in unity, but weakness in division.

I am going to give the benefit of the doubt to that person and assume they meant sitting in the back on a JS ticket. Even still, should that be the case you should help if the captain requests it.

I thought someone said that jeans weren't acceptable attire?

What I was saying was, if slacks and a dress shirt are the requirements, and CA's start letting people jumpseat in jeans and a casual shirt or t-shirt, before long you'll have guys wearing shorts and tank tops. That's the nature of people, to push the envelope. Give them an inch, they'll take a mile.

In training, at the schoolhouse, jeans are OK. NOT for the jumpseat. Ever.

Jeans are not considered business casual. If there is any chance you will need the jumpseat, don’t wear jeans to the airport.

Khakis, chinos are about as informal as you want to get with regard to pants.

Something that has not been really touched on during this discourse is that if you are on an AA flight, no matter who is flying it, if you are a D1 or D2, you are just like any other employee using their travel privileges. Other airline, or other airline flying on Envoy/AA is using reciprocal JS agreement. These really are two different things. We may end up on the JS and use that ability because it is full in the back. If so, then regular JS etiquette applies. Is it courteous to check in if you are a D1/D2 and have a seat in the back, sure, but not required.

The OP was about an Envoy on Spirit, but there are lines that have been blurred in this discussion.

All that being said, I still agree that you must be properly dressed, etc. either way and when required, check in and ask for the ride.

That's what I thought, but MySaabStory was saying different.

If you're a D1/D2 riding in the back, I really don't want you checking in at the cockpit. The last thing I need is 20 rampers/Fa/gate agents saying thanks for the ride.

I agree with your point. I was just referencing someone on the FDJ.

Did that make you feel like a big man?

Probably not, but I’m sure it made him feel like he was doing his part to uphold the standards of the profession.

See, there's always somebody who has to take a childish stab at someone else who is simply following the rules laid out by the company that pays him.

As CrowneVic mentioned, that guy did the right thing.

Don't wear jeans if you think there's the remotest possibility you may need to actually sit in a jumpseat. It's not Rocket Science. :rolleyes:

(the more this inevitableneb posts in this thread, the more I think he may have been the person the OP was talking about)

Guess we have our answer. You are the immature kid who showed up trying to jumpseat on the LCC mentioned at the start of this thread and said you were with American.

Other pilots: Envoy
General public: American Eagle or just American if met with a blank stare.

This whole thing just seems a bit overblown to me. Actually making the guy change pants seems like a power Trip to me, he could have just said 'hey, for next time, jeans aren't really kosher'.

But, your right, those are the rules. If offense was taken at this or any other snarky comments I've made, I apologise.

I just wish we could all be decent to each other instead of constantly sizing each other up and deciding we're better than them because our seniority is higher or our airline is better, or our airframe is bigger.

I'm not the person this post is talking about, but I have made proceedural errors while jumpseating, and I was usually met with extreme curtesy and respect by the FD crew, which I deeply appreciated. I was not blasted on a forum for pages and pages. This isn't something that belongs here at all, it should be limited to private conversations or in the most extreme circumstances the Jumpseat committee.

I’ve seen a captain make someone change twice. Once was a Southwest pilot who wanted to ride on the flight deck in jeans and Han Solo boots. The other was a mainline captain who was going on vacation. Both situations were handled professionally and all involved understood.

Anyone who blasted the original subject of this thread blasted the wrong guy for reasons I outlined previously.

We have professional standards, just like physicians, lawyers, police, etc. It is up to us to uphold them and maintain our profession at a high level. That is why the guy wearing jeans was asked to change his pants.

He knew the rules, and decided he couldn't be bothered to throw on a pair of Dockers before showing up. He had something to change into in his bag, for crying out loud!

Do you think he would have done that if he were flying on his own metal or another mainline carrier? No way in H.

I'm not against what you said about just giving the guy the verbal, "Next time don't wear jeans", and letting him ride if that's your style. But do you think a lot of mainline guys, including this very Captain, wouldn't have made you change under similar circumstances? They don't want unprofessional looking turds on their flightdecks, either.

Probably more than most professions, except maybe cops, we are watched and scrutinized VERY carefully by EVERYONE. You can sense people scrutinizing and sizing you up as you walk to the gate, through the terminal, enter/exit the cockpit, and so forth.

They are all asking themselves if you are skilled and trustworthy enough to take them and their families flying. Your appearance, and the appearance of anyone on the flightdeck, has an impact on their conclusions.

We do need to take of each other. I can't remember where I heard or read the great story of some guy who had non-rev'd somewhere, but had all of his luggage lost while on vacation. He was desperate to get back to work and only the jumpseat was available. He only had a t-shirt, swim trunks, flip-flops, and about three or four days worth of stubble. He pleaded his case to the Captain and apologized profusely. Of course, he just got a big laugh and a hearty welcome aboard.

That kind of stuff is one-off. But day-to-day standards need to be maintained, or we will just be ruining things for ourselves. Our livelihoods depend on it.

I disagree.

I think it belongs here so everyone can learn from the mistakes of others, especially the young guys just getting into the industry. I promise you that if a low time guy that's looking to get on with a regional soon reads this thread, they'll learn some etiquette about jumpseating that they probably wouldn't learn in ground school.

You guys sound like nightmares...a nice pair of jeans is way better than a rough pair of khakis. I’ll allow any of you in my jumpseat because you sound like you guys dress for prom but god damn I don’t look forward to the conversation.

I am honestly kind of surprised anyone cares what you wear in the back if it’s neat and not eccentric. We are carrying basic economies wearing tattered wifebeaters soaked through with a mixture of sweat and McDonald’s honey BBQ. I see no reason to deny a cabin seat in coach to a guy in jeans and a button-down.

The cockpit is a different story for all the reasons mentioned previously. The pax are expecting to see a certain (very high) level of professionalism coming from the people in there.

And then you’re violating FM-1 and have to call the union when you get dragged to the CPO for it. Jeans in the back is one thing, up front is another.

This thing just keeps going
 

Can someone change the thread title to "Jumpseat complaints"

I keep thinking it's a discussion about flow to AA or something more interesting about my career.

Click bait!

I don't recall anyone saying you couldn't ware what you want in the back, but dont expect the JS if you do. In fact, AA changed the rules recently to allow for pretty much anything a passenger would ware, since they didn't want gate agents having to be the ones determining your dress code conformity.

Did you even read through the thread? Not one person said anything about what is worn in the cabin.

Come on man! Once is a mistake, twice is intentional.


Ware - Article offered for sale

Wear - Have on one's body or a part of one's body as clothing.



People do judge you be the words you use.

This thing keeps going, just like when someone does a “reply all” telling people not to reply all.

Except when the reply has "Amish porn websites" in there.
Because that was legendary.

So you'd greenlight a Republic guy for a seat in the back on jumpseat privileges when he checks in in jeans?

Most CA's wouldn't and ALPA says business casual in the cabin when on JS privileges.

People in the back on D6 jumpseat status are not the same as D1/2/3 which is what is being referred to for the dress code.

If you are D6 you are “jumpseating”, no matter where you sit. D1/2 in the BACK are not.

You guys actually think I D2 in slacks LOL im done

No issue D2ing in jeans. You just give up the option of riding the jumpseat.

And no one said it’s ok for a Republic or any other D6 to wear jeans.

Guy was going to his daughters graduation. Why didn’t he have khakis for that? No idea. It was a nice pair of jeans, he apologized for it, and I wasn’t going to make him miss something like that. Should he have dressed more appropriately? Absolutely. What would you have done in that situation?

As long as you're not in flip flops and a tank top, you're welcome to my jumpseat as long as you're not an *******. Just be friendly and if you make a mistake, apologize and correct it.

Drop kick them out of the flight deck and publicly shame them in front of the passengers all while contacting their respective CPO during my scathing email to their jump seat committee. Seems pretty obvious really.

So he was going to a semi-formal event in jeans? Was it held at Daytona Motor Speedway? I’m sorry, but I would have made him change. With my luck someone from the CPO would have been waiting to do a random on the jetway and I would have gotten in trouble for it. Jumpseating isn’t new. It’s not like the standards were just written.

Because this conversation isn't silly enough already: Kenmore air, a seaplane company we have a reciprocal jump seat agreement with, allows their pilots to wear shorts as part of their uniform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EcYt7fdyGY

Would you kick a Kenmore air pilot out of the jump seat for wearing shorts even though they're in uniform?

Yup. They don’t meet our dress code. This isn’t hard. It’s in FM-1 which is an approved manual therefore is is doctrine.

Please, your asking them to follow the fmp-1, you will have to post it on facebook for them to read it, it's the only way.

Just show up and when your denied and written up, go do the dance in the cpo office when they inform you your travel privledges are suspended. That too is in the part 1.

“... or approved pilot uniform”. Good to go per FM-1.