How many people quit last week?
 

Let’s talk about the abusive schedules first, the lowest paid wholly owned, the bu$&$hit decade flow, the mec lacking cojones, the nazi and deceitful management... to the truck stop hotels. Not surprised at the numbers I’m hearing out on the line.

Outside of the flow, 17 punched out over the last 3 weeks.

How many were Captains?

Seven.

/10/

Where are they going? When stuff got really bad in 2013-14 we had an ENY attrition thread. Maybe time to start one of those threads again. 🤔

About Tree-Fiddy

Seven captains out of 1250 over three weeks is under 6/10ths of a percent in three weeks or approximately 9.7% year. That is NOT a huge number or percentage with the hiring at the majors going on these days. Anybody who is a captain with 1000 hours is certainly competitive at JetBlue, Spirit, and Frontier. The more people who actually put their apps out and hustle to get hired outside the flow, the better it is for them and everyone.

Relevant again.

How many people have left?

Fedex, JetBlue, Spirit, Frontier, Atlas, Kalitta, Endeavor, Skywest.

If you have a chance at any of those you shouldn't be sitting here, waiting for your 15 year flow.

I think things are tightening up.

No lateral moves in June. All REs have been to better opportunities.

What are the stats looking like?

Flow me or blow me

Sounds like you’re pretty stuck on staying at Envoy for the long haul no matter how bad it is. You’re not even considering or trying anything else??!!

As long as they didn’t have a payback, they weren’t very invested. Sun Country still a move up. SKW maybe, maybe not, but no matter what it is, if it works for you, then it’s a good move.

And most of those airlines with whom the 1600 have applications are just starting to get into hiring. The word is JUST.

A major airline that shall not be named has the schoolhouse full with requals and cross training to other aircraft for those aircraft that have retired.

Word is they will be hiring with classes in September. They almost immediately kick it into high gear. So far, they don’t have new hires in the door.

Those pilots would be foolish to quit today when class dates don’t start for 3 months down the road.

Qft.

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Hell no! In my case it makes sense to wait for the flow where I currently sit, unless another major calls me.

Sounds about right. The less classes they do and the bigger they are, the smaller the flow presence because of how it's structured, so naturally they'll avoid doing classes as long as possible before "kicking it into high gear" with a few huge ones to devalue the flow as much as possible.

The question is, why don't they want to staff their regionals? Is this typical AA mismanagement? Compare with Delta where the flow is recognized as the most powerful recruiting tool at the regional level and DALPA is expected to resist.

Lots of incorrect information.
- The flow LOA is signed, in effect and first class is in August.
- The minimum is 20 per month, each month that DAL hires.
- Endeavor can hold back flow pilots, but they receive Delta seniority numbers. The amount of months varies.

The pick and choose you’re referencing is for the LOA requiring 35% of new hires to be from a ALPA DCI carrier. That DAL does have discretion over to an extent. But the 20 a month is part of that 35% quota.

Did I read correctly that new hires wouldn't be included in the flow program? If so that would suck, but at least you could count on your seniority going up by 20 a month.

100% correct, and anyone considering Endeavor needs seriously reconsider that decision. The association is actively trying to change that, but look how long the current career progression negotiations took. There are better options, and DGI is just a coin flip.

Why did the flow program get moved back to August?

Because contractually we have 45 days to either opt in or out of the flow.

It’s 20 a month for everyone on the seniority list at the DOS of the LOA. No ratios or percentages depending on date of hire like Envoy has.

I think your reps were advocating that before it was known that the flow does not apply to new hires.

The Endeavor flow deal went from "damn, thats a good deal" to "wtf are they thinking?" in a matter of a few hours. Now it's just a seniority list flush that has no effect on recruiting.

Only the most recent flow agreement included new hires at ENY/EGL. The majority of the different flow deals and arbitration awards only included pilots already on property.

Why would you not immediately get those pilots at the top of the list flowing?

I don’t think this was ever about recruiting. This was about Delta being able to fly more regional jets. They figure even without the flow they can fill those RJ flight decks and by taking the most expensive pilots off the top of the seniority list, they can fill them for a lower overall cost. Much like the flow works to push some upward movement of the seniority list, that will do the same at Endeavor, which isn’t as good a recruiting tool as a REAL guaranteed flow, it still has appeal to many, especially at a company like Endeavor that already has a lot going for it.

You are misinterpreting the facts. As I said, there is no room in the schoolhouse for new hires until requals are completed. They are jam packed full. That is not because AA is out to screw the flows over.

I can’t understand why AA is projected to hire 1/2 of what United will and 1/3 of what delta will in the next 18 months.

Easy. AA is broke, UA and DL are not.

One will shrink, the other two will buy airplanes and expand.

Well, glad the flow is only 5.6 years for a new hire today.

Am I allowed to quit and get rehired? According to Ric's email, I'll flow faster.

Same here. Been here for 2.5 years and would have around 5.5 left. Better to be a new hire.

has anyone emailed ric and asked his methodology for his numbers?

Yes, multiple times. He has always ignored them.