Interactive Seniority list
 

The interactive and system seniority lists have been updated and posted on the ENY MEC ALPA web page.

Although they don't include the flow changes due to the LoA. Besides flow dates for most, the rest of the info should be accurate.

I saw that as well. Should be about a three month boost to flow date for those after the 10/11 group.

As of right now the last guy on that list shows a flow date of Jan 2029 if anyone is curious.

Nope we are not curious. It means nothing.

and who cares, your time in purgatory will end when it does. your choice to wait or find an escape sooner. 9, 7 or 5 years that is 9,7, or 5 years lower on seniority list that you will be after wasting your time waiting here.

It’s NOT a 9 year flow here why does everybody keep saying that.


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I know geeez, alpa should remove that list from their website. How dare they post those projections online if they're not even accurate :rolleyes:

Because the lies that Envoy tells new hires of flowing in “just over five years” are ABSOLUTELY the truth.

https://www.envoyair.com/american-airlines-group/

Probably rounding down from ~9.3 years lol

How is it not? What would the flow time be for a new hire?

Realistically, assuming no changes in the contract, 6.5-7.5 years.

Show the math, taking out the fact of attrition since after about two years here, it has very little effect on your seniority.

The majority of our attrition happens early in the list. If you are just “hoping” that it’s that time frame I would agree, however to state it so confidently requires you to prove the logic.

I am genuinely interested.

The 9.3 years assumes no non-flow attrition but also assumes American takes the max from Envoy every single month*. There are months from time to time where American doesn't hire anyone so no flow at all for those months so that needs to be considered. Some like to figure the non-flow attrition like it comes off the top of the list but it doesn't. Most of those are recent hires that either just need to get current to get hired elsewhere, or wash out, or decide this life isn't for them, or whatever. The reality is that most guys that need real time here to be competitive elsewhere mostly just wait for flow. The result is very little of the non-flow attrition will effect your projected flow day and is generally a wash when you figure it against the non-flow months.

There is a lot of speculation that hiring will pick up and more people will not simply wait for flow given how the flow time is getting longer now. However, that's speculation. I do think there's SOME truth to that and flow time will be less than the union projection for someone hired today but I don't think it will be by a lot. My GUESS is around 8 years. It's really difficult to make sensible math out if it and get it much below that though. The 6 year projection by the company comes off like a straight up lie.



*There was a recent LOA that increases the max flow for a small group of pilots per month which will effect everyone downhill from that group by about 3.5 months. The latest interactive seniority list didn't update that part of the union projection for some reason so the projection should be 9 years instead of 9.3.

Would be nice if they update the list to reflect the most recent agreement

What is everyone's beef, flow will be between 7-9 years if there is no outside attrition. The outside attrition is averaging 20 per month. Run the numbers yourself and stop beotching.
Or go complain to mgt and recruiting dept. Union is not required to show you your flow date, mgt is but they wont.

That is the whole beef. Envoy has, and continues to, advertise a 5 to 5 1/2 year flow. The union’s numbers are a best outside estimate based on language that comes from the contract and its amendments. Envoy’s numbers come from unicorns and pixie dust. In the absence of any supporting evidence, the numbers from Envoy are more unsubstantiated lies and propaganda.

They told the last INDOC class 6 years and historically their numbers have been spot on and the union had been “worst causing it”

Historically meaning the past <5 years? before that you were looking at a 18-30 year flow so that doesn't mean much

And that's why people keep coming here for flow. People will believe what they want to hear.

Let’s just get something straight. In respect to flow the company has NEVER been right.

Going forward are they going to be right? We can only use probabilities when talking about the future. Right now I think the company will likely be right when it comes to Charlie Brown. (If you don’t know who CB is then your opinion doesn’t matter. You haven’t been around long enough.) Predicting a new hires flow date is a bunch of horse manure. There isn’t a realistic way to predict attrition, hiring rates, macro economics, or political chaos to accurately predict a flow date that far out. By the way the last flow prediction the company put out was off by more than 6 months in most cases I looked at.

Lol...I think you mean Charlie Bucket.

Beat me to it.

Six beers in and I’m just glad I got Charlie right. I’m dreading the start of this four day tomorrow. 5 legs!!

That could be true if they make their predictions the day people get assigned an AA class. They are already Months off from their prediction in December. Should have been through most of 2012 in November according to that prediction.

Does anybody know what "XXX" means for the seat designation?

Inactive. Usually people who failed training, or dropped mil orders during indoc.

Makes sense. I assume it applies to any FMLA sort of absence. The real question is why is there an "XXX" next to my name?? I guess I need to send a quick email to the CPO.

For those who come here for flow. Why not tell envoy in order to accept there offered you need a letter signed by management stating the date and year of your flow. Other than that no one cares when you flow. It will happen when it happens. Remember after january you need a clean bill of health to flow.

So what happens if you fail training? Don't they just show you the door? I thought most of those xxx are on some kind of military leave, FMLA etc

It's all written in the contract. Read it.

Mr. Know it all...

Dude...it's a lot more than guys who failed out of training or that are on military orders. A much more common explanation that your nonsense is it could be guys that are in MGMT, it could be guys that are now in the schoolhouse, it could be guys that now work in Recruiting, it could be guys that are SA, it could be guys that are out on Sick Leave/FMLA, it could be guys that are full time MEC Officers, etc.

Dera is just salty because he can’t come to the defense of the company on this latest issue. Everything we have all been saying for over a year about how this company will screw you is coming true.

Dera always touted the contract and how the company really isn’t as bad as we all said. Here we sit with them actively violating the contract with nothing but an “oops, sorry for the misunderstanding”. I wonder if crew scheduling or the cpo would take that as an excuse for missing an assignment? “Oops I misunderstood the contract section regarding show times, sorry”.

And on the last pay day, Dera tried to come to the Company's defense post haste (as usual) and proclaim that they'd paid the pilot group in full for retro pay when in fact they hadn't. He got awfully quiet when it was pointed out that they hadn't. He's been an effin' know it all since he showed up on property and a MGMT apologist since the beginning.

That wasn't meant to be an exhaustive list obviously.
The guys in the schoolhouse are AETC.

I am pretty positive you wouldn't give this type of answer to someone you’re sitting in the cockpit with, so why do it online? But thanks man, I’ll make sure to look that up.

Yeah really no point in replying. He's also asked multiple contract questions on FB so idk why he has the attitude about it.

Also agree with what the others have said about him being salty for being wrong about the company being late on pay. He was one of the first to post about it here and on FB saying how they paid us out in full without fully checking the numbers. While also talking down people saying "Wait until September 30 to complain" and "This post (about back pay) aged well". And then went silent on it. For someone 9 months on property he really has quite the ego.

Gotta keep the facade up so he can tell Mommy and Daddy he works at a good regional?

I still believe my pay was correct. If they are paying more, I'm keeping my mouth shut and not going to complain. My backpay was within a reasonable error margin of what I expected to get. There are others who believe their pay was correct as well, and some who believe they were actually overpaid. Clearly these people were in the minority, but they were the first ones I talked to and that's why I believed the pay was correct for most. My mistake.

Did you get a complete retro pay or a partial pay iaw the posted memo? The later =/= correct