Originally Posted by pitchattitude

I thought your KoolAid tap had been shut for too long. But your lies continue.

You must ask has ANYONE left Frontier, Spirit or Allegiant for Envoy???

This is one thing you certainly don’t want to be the first AND last to do.

Originally Posted by shinydiscoballs

Correction - 2 DEC's are from Allegiant.

Originally Posted by shinydiscoballs

Correction - 2 DEC's are from Allegiant.

Originally Posted by pitchattitude

I also could see that as well. Allegiant is definitely a niche airline and that includes employment. They really don’t even hire a lot of people that don’t fit their basing model. But that still is a step down on the career ladder.

Originally Posted by Cyio

OK, so if we take that number of 2450, for rounding, subtract the 200 lifers, that leaves us with 2250. This would then work out to 2250/21=107/12=8.92 or for rounding, 9 years. So not that far off and this assumes we can maintain 21 flows per month for the entire 9 years. The flow number may go up, but it could also go down.

Listen, I am not here to bash the flow, I am planning on using it even though I have offers only because I am so close and dont want to commute the rest of my career. With that said, the point that was being made all along was that the flow for a new hire has lost its shine somewhat. If I was starting today looking at potentially a 9 year flow or even at best, a 6.5 year flow, I would be giving serious consideration to other carriers with better pay/qol/contract.

I will also add that Envoy is significantly better now than it was in years past, but, history has a way or repeating itself and all it will take is a downturn or severe understaffing and management can return to their old ways. We need to tread carefully and listen to those that have been through this process else suffer the same fate.

I hope, hope, hope that the new union leadership put a high priority on flow times increasing. This should be the number one factor for them as it will effect the greatest number of pilots positively, short of the roughly 8% that are lifers. The lifers are not worried about reserve rules, they just want more pay. Getting us all the hell out of here one or two years sooner is far and away more important/impactful for our careers than having a long call on reserve.

Anyway, rant over lol, just wanted to chime in on it.

Originally Posted by dera

If you feel so strongly about the flow times, please contact your union reps. Based on some credible intel, it does not seem to be high on any wishlist. Almost the opposite. The only way your voice is heard in negotiations is through your reps. Use them.

Originally Posted by BigZ

Good. Company was the one advertising 5.5 year flow, I see no reason for the association to give anything up to make that reality.

Originally Posted by Ihavenoidea

Bumping an old thread, wondering if the new pay scales have brought in any ULCC FO’s? I’ve talked with a few guys who went to NK without PIC time and are considering going back to the voy for a quick upgrade and ~$150 an hour + bonuses. Sounds like a ~7 year flow would put you on the backside of the AA hiring wave though. Thoughts?

Originally Posted by Ihavenoidea

Bumping an old thread, wondering if the new pay scales have brought in any ULCC FO’s? I’ve talked with a few guys who went to NK without PIC time and are considering going back to the voy for a quick upgrade and ~$150 an hour + bonuses. Sounds like a ~7 year flow would put you on the backside of the AA hiring wave though. Thoughts?