Conference call
 

I was flying. I'm surprised no one has posted bullet points by now. Anyone care to fill those of us in that were busy?

Thanks in advance.

try respective FB group

I'd rather be ignorant and uninformed that use FB. Thanks anyway.

Its useless anyways, someone already asked your question and got a mostly useless answer.

Same crap different day. Union can’t tell us anything because of NDA. They won’t commit to a number because things change. Yada yada yada. Why even hold these calls?

Thanks. And to answer your question, because we'd be *****ing up a storm about silence from the union if they didn't.

Yeah I see what you are saying, but is saying stuff with no substance just for the sake of saying something really worth it? It seems to sow more fear and angst than anything. Just one guys opinion. I will say though, that you are right, the union is in a ****ty spot because they are damned if they do and damed if they dont.

I thought they were pretty forthright when it came to who is vulnerable for a furlough.

So if you heard the call, share what is pertinent.

Not on a public forum.

Email the PilotHour address. It goes to all of the officers and reps. I got my question answered by a rep rather quickly.

Cockpit Crewmember Floor & Preference in Hiri
 

APA JCBA Rev.1 SECTION 1 - 4 November 1, 2015

Cockpit Crewmember Floor.
In the event that the number of cockpit crewmembers employed by the Company on the American Airlines Pilots Seniority List goes below 7300, the parties agree that the commuter exception contained in this Section D. shall be terminable at the option of APA following a 90- day period to provide an opportunity for discussion. If APA elects to require termination of the commuter exception, the Company shall thereafter have a reasonable time to complete the disposition of the operations covered by this Section D. during which period the parties shall meet in good faith and discuss the issues related to such termination. Pilots added to the American Airlines Pilots Seniority List by way of seniority merger shall not count in calculating the number of cockpit crewmembers for purposes of this paragraph 3.

Preference in Hiring.
If pilots of the Company are on furlough, such pilots shall be given preference in the filling of vacancies on Air Carriers operated under Section 1.D. that are Affiliates. The Company shall also attempt to secure preference for such pilots for vacancies occurring at Air Carriers in which the Company or an Affiliate owns a minority equity interest and at independently owned Air Carriers that have franchise-type agreements or other codesharing relationships with the Company or an Affiliate.

Could you put that all into context for the less brainy members lol. Legalese gives me a headache.

what is the commuter exception contained in this part D?

Second part seems like flowback to the topof the new hire list at wholly owned.

Did they explain whatever that is on the conference call?

Not a single part sounds like a flow back. It says if we have vacancies they’ll be given preference. Doesn’t say a single thing about them getting a guaranteed job and keeping seniority.

Doesn’t AA have about 15000 pilots on their list? Getting down to 7300 is magnitudes worse than anyone is proposing right now, so whatever that clause is, I wouldn’t worry about it.

As for the second part... a promise to give preferential hiring to furloughs is WAY different than “flow back”. I think most companies have a similar clause (I know UA used to pre-merger). If ENY/PSA/PDT aren’t hiring it’s meaningless, and at most it would be cause for a battle between some furloughees and cadets 12 months from now.

This. You ask 300 of the pilots on the call for their summary and you will get 300 different answers. Many of them nowhere near to what was actually said.

Which is why the union should just email a summary to everyone. Not everyone having to ask.

If I'm not mistaken, the commuter exception is what allows the regional feed to exist in the AA world. Without it all flying must be done by pilots on the APA seniority list.

really? How about “such pilots shall be given preference in the filling of vacancies on Air Carriers operated under Section 1.D”. That defines our flow. Preference in filling vacancies. When AA has a vacancy we get first XX% of the seats. So if we had a vacancy they would get first crack at it. That sounds like a flow back to Eagle. What am I missing? Oh and we don’t keep seniority when we flow either.

you're missing reading comprehension class. The key word is “preference”

As Bobby Fischer would say: “You’ve lost, you just don’t know it yet.”

I'm certainly lost because I don't know what that is or even why it was posted in this thread. :-\

A bit too young I guess.

Not exactly.

And I was referring to the gobbly goop from what appears to be the AA pilot contract, not the Bobby Fischer reference. Whatever his intent was, it didn't make sense to drop that here.

which is what we have at AA, preferential hiring.

At the bottom of the seniority, new hire, 1st year pay on probation first officer, if we are hiring and you meet our standards.

Only if they have been a captain at AA for one year. No exceptions.

nice

filler

I agree.
............

That is so funny I haven’t chuckled at APC forums in a while! Imagine how wild that would be if that actually happened


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bingo....

Hence my suggestions months ago about single carrier and looking into a single list with fences...

I doubt AA pilots would ever accept a situation where their F15 buddies can't jump ahead of 8-12 year regional scum on the mainline seniority list.

I dont know, if I was an F15 pilot right now I would be highly skeptical of the airline world, potentially deciding to just make a career out of the military. I dont see any major doing any hiring at all for years, despite what some may say. Hell, SWA was 1500 pilots heavy prior to this, so you know they are 5 or so years out. Spirit already has a deep hiring pool of candidates that they were in the process of getting onboard right before this happened, so I dont see them needing anyone for awhile. United and Delta are furlough contenders, so again, they won't need anyone for years to come. AAG is still up in the air but I cant imagine DP did anything so unique that will eventually save them from the same fate as the others.

The cargo carriers have a huge list of candidates and filled their slots for years to come with he closing of TSA and Compass.

Hang on all, I dont see anywhere for us, or the military pilots to go for a long time. Depressing really.

Patience grasshopper. I've been through this twice before. 9/11 and the Great Recession. Eventually things return to normal. This time, much more quickly as the underlying economy was fundamentally strong before. Once that vaccine hits, by year end it seems, then I expect that V shaped recovery in spades. You have a job at AA. Just take a deep breath and let it out slowly.

And it was so quiet for a while. Go back to what ever rock you were hiding under. Your KoolAid swilling predictions and rhetoric aren’t believed by anyone anymore. Even the once bright eyed cadets you pander to can see your posts for what they are.

I agree with about 80% of this. I’m not an AA pilot until I get treated like one or we at least wear the same damn wings lol. My paycheck may say AAG but I sure as heck don’t get the 16% direct 401k contribution.

As for the recovery, I agree. The economy was built solidly and proof of that is the DOW currently sitting at 26,713.87. That’s only roughly 3k below pre Covid levels. No one is really talking about that. It’s impressive. So I think, and I’d like to believe others think the same way as well, that the vaccine will quell anxieties about traveling, sort of like a cure all shield. But I also think the media will try to keep this going since it’s an election year, and it will continue after wards. I won’t get into politics on that, but until the headlines stop reading about Covid panic click-bait, this will get dragged out. If not, then it will be pretty swift.


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I won’t even bother responding to “he who shall not be named” but I feel about as much like an AA pilot as a rock feels like a fish.

Im not convinced the recovery will happen anything like a V but here’s to hoping being wrong.