New Unity Video
 

Alright, which one of you made this? Submitting you for Sundance next year.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...&v=_STrcZ1OSLQ

Search “Charlie Bucket in a meeting” on YouTube if you don’t trust the link (don’t blame you).

That’s good stuff!

Serious question,

Is PSA’s MEC actually not returning phone calls? I heard that’s what happened with the recent pay raises almost a year ago.

Another thread is saying PSA management is only offering permanent concessions. Nothing temporary. Haven’t heard or seen anything about what their MEC is doing. I’m so far removed from that kind of information though so just consider this filler until someone with more knowledge comes along.

I’d just be happy to hear something from our own MEC other than “we can’t say” or “we can’t negotiate until the window for leave closes”. Something along those lines. The last video conference call was actually informative and would be welcomed again.

If they can't say, they really can't say.

The union and management talk about things that do not come to fruition. It's just the nature of the game.

TC and team are the best communicators of the last 3 MEC's I have worked under.

All I am going to say that our MEC walked as the company was trying to force concessions. Even played games with furlough numbers. I am glad they did because the pilot group collective wanted no concessions.

I’ve watched this three times now and just keeps getting better.

The union walked away from negotiations with PSA management. They sent a pretty long letter about it. The MEC also rejected an early out option for the more senior guys (which isn’t many). I guess they finally learned how to not take permanent concessions. Also, the pilot group didn’t want permanent concessions which they made loud and clear.

Thank you for that. Seriously.

We’re not privy to exactly what was asked for. Rumor mill has said they asked for just about everything except hourly rate (Min guarantee, tiered pay, sap). The union tossed some temporary relief ideas, but they weren’t interested. So last week the negotiators walked out and told them let it ride. They’re sending just about the whole 730 furlough letters and downgrading upwards of 300 captains. Taking it on the chin, but we’ll get through. Hope for less turbulence for you all in the coming weeks.

Assuming all of that is accurate, way to go PSA.

Thanks for the info. Sorry to hear it’s going to cut so deep. This whole thing is going to be ugly for quite a while.

Yeah, they started with a displacement but with 530 pilots the. A week later rescinded the bid and increased it to 600 to put pressure on our MEC. Then a few weeks later rescinded the bid to increase the number of furloughs to continue to put pressure on our MEC.

This, plus the company not wanting to negotiate in good faith, plus ignoring the issues with crew scheduling, crew pay, and crew planning getting away with doing things that benefits them and not following the contract.

Our pilots said to hell with it, hard no to concessions. Quite frankly I was even against temporary relief as the I believe the company overplayed their hand with constant increasing with furlough numbers.

It is. “See you in 2023 or bankruptcy. Whichever comes first”... Assuming they don’t just wind us down completely anyway.

Amazing work to all of you over there. Thanks for leading the way with all of it. Cant wait to see what is in store for us.

This is definitely NOT the PSA of 6 years ago. We had one of their reps on a flight to CHA a couple months back. As we walked to the hotel he tracked us down and we had a rather lengthy chat about what was going on over there. We came away with a good feeling about the changes is attitude of the representation over there.
Thanks guys for taking a stand.

I'm sure it's going to be great.

:rolleyes:

I m sure our MEC will hold strong as long as the company doesn't offer a percentage increase in flow. If that happens, who knows... :(

Yeah no way would they take even that. The flow is useless right now and everyone knows it.

5.4.3.2.1 Here comes TheKooj telling us how great AA is and how only the most skilled and intelligent aviators are accepted into the cadet program. Blah Blah Blah, Lies, Lies, Lies.

Everything I heard last summer was they were holding out for the AIP as well. Then the company offered them 5 more flows per month for 10 months and then, well, you know.

Good thing they didn't bring it to a vote that would have failed. What would we do without that flow

Yeah, but everyone should be glad that they got those raises locked in and ended the bonuses, otherwise we’d all be making quite a bit less right now

Read your policy manual. A pilot vote wasn't required in any way, shape, or form last summer. But you'd know that if you read it. At least ORD held out and said no.

Never said it was required

Kudos to PSA for standing strong.

The WO’s are all in a tough spot with this state of the industry since we don’t have contracts with our mainline partner. We could all be the next on the chopping block if needed for scope and/or cost relief.

I hope the days of the whipsaw are behind us, and we can all stand together to preserve what we fought for these past few years.


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Agreed. We don't all have to be best friends, but we need to be united in upholding the profession and not allowing AAG to blame us for their woes.

Its aag proven method of beating w/o's. Go after psa, then use psa agreement to beat envoy, then go to pdt and push them to the cliff.
if this is true regarding psa, then aag has lost or been delayed greatly from beating the shi+ out of the w/o's. We will just have to wait and see.

remember aag is not out of the woods, they ate still greatly in debt. They are the favorite choice of being first into bankruptcy
if bankruptcy is possible then concessions at this time is wrong because they will just come after the contract again in bankruptcy. AAG likes double and triple dipping.

Lets hope that new bill gets passed in Congress to stop them from using BK's to rewrite labor contracts. If you haven't done so, make sure you follow the ALPA steps to inform your representitives.

I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but will that even accomplish anything? Say airline X goes bankrupt, they can't gut the contract, so the just close down the company and magically reopen as airline Y. Everyone gets a ****ty new contract and first year pay. What's to stop them from doing that?

Sure that’s a possibility, not sure how likely though. Still better than them using BK’s as a negotiation tactic. Heck some companies file BK’s just to force a cheaper contract. That’s what the bill aims to stop. A company is way less likely to shut down every eight years than file BK.

As someone else has said the pilots over here at PSA have been a hard no on concessions. Honestly its been a hard no even on temporary relief under the guise it would save furloughs. Even when the company came back and rescinded increasing the numbers of warn for furloughs the vast vast majority of this pilot group has the mentality of do not give them anything at all. Let it play out as it is especially since its been a one way road with management.

I've heard the stories of what has happened in the past and I can tell you from what I've seen first hand under a mostly new pilot group it is not going to be like that again. Let AAG and the WO suffer the consequences of their actions.

Y'all have transfer of assets clauses in your contract, I hope?

Envoy I believe did until bankruptcy.

What assets? Are we talking Envoy? Or AAG?

Yes I think pre bankruptcy Envoy (Eagle back then) owned all of the aircraft. The assets were all transferred to AMR and someone brought up the fact that the pilots should should go with the airplanes. Who knows how serious it would have gotten and I think ALPA was starting proceedings to protect our successorship but the MEC dropped for (you guessed it), more flow.


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Envoy is a staffing agency. They own nothing. It’s all in AAG’s name.

It happened way before bankruptcy. That was the origin of the Protected Pilot agreement (2011). They didn’t achieve “more flow”, they got flow through. Prior to that agreement those pilots had no career progression to AA at all.

It was still a bad deal, but, as I recall, it was put to a pilot vote and approved overwhelmingly. No one really understood the mistake we had made until bankruptcy though.

Thanks, knew I was a little hazy on some of the details


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Didn't used to be.

By the way, I tried that very argument with ALPA legal that the RLA didn't apply to us since we were just a staffing company with in-house training. They actually kicked it around for about a week, before deciding not to pursue it, and for one reason. It's the same reason that repudiates the "staffing company" position. The fact is, Envoy holds an FAA Air Carrier Certificate, which makes it an airline, not a staffing company. The fact that the current business model is to fly somebody else's airplanes doesn't mean they cant fly their own, like they used to.

This is partially correct. That flow was the result of a grievance arbitration. There was no pilot vote. The subsequent ones were all done by pilot votes as contract amendments.