Bonus repayment
 

I have a buddy who left before his time was up on the contract. Now envoy is threatening to sue him. Anyone know what the deal is? Will they sue? Is it legal for them to sue him for a bonus?

Never ask for legal advice on a public forum. Have your buddy seek proper legal advice from an attorney in the state of jurisdiction.

Pretty sure the answer is yes, and yes. Assuming they can produce a contract he signed, I can’t imagine why it wouldn’t be legal for them to try and enforce it.

Where’s the fun in that?

what? Suing in America? There is no way that is legal!

Did not someone already go to court to fight it. End result he lost court case and had to pay the companies legal costs on top.
these contracts were not written by union lawyers, they were written by people trained to screw pilots.
well with that last statement, it could be a union lawyer.

As others have stated, seek legal advice, but if there is an unfulfilled contract, there is grounds for seeking its remuneration.

I paid back my bonus when I quit. I didn't wait for a lawsuit. It was pretty cut and dry. You owe us X amoun . I paid it back.

Your buddy should have a copy of the repayment agreement that he/she signed. Shows how much you owe depending on when you leave, month by month, until your two years has been completed.

This may be inaccurate but I think the only successful minority that got out of paying it were the forced upgrades. And that was only a very small window of guys until the wording in the agreement was changed to capture that.

Why would this screw pilots? Nobody has to sign the contract, either don’t take the money, go somewhere without a contract, or abide by the terms. I don’t blame them for wanting their money back if you don’t abide by the terms.

Yes your correct, my statement was more to that contracts like those dont favor pilot except to comply completely with agreement or they will come after you.

I have a friend in the same situation. Left early 2019 as a direct entry captain owing back $12k. Would have been downgraded to FO Oct 1st, and not needed for the last 6 months. Literally saved the company money by leaving, now they are coming after the $12k.

Does it say anywhere in the contract that if them leaving saves the company money they don’t have to pay back the bonus?

No.
I honestly just this it is bad faith that the company is coming after former employees leaving a terrible situation, while taking government assistance to pay their current employees. Nothing surprises me with Envoy though. The whole direct entry thing as well as flow has proven to be a complete scam.

Isn’t it bad faith to sign an agreement, accept a bonus, leave before the agreed tenure was up, and try to not repay the remaining balance, as agreed?

This is a dumb argument. No one made them take the bonus.

Yeah know? I can understand someone trying to see if they can get away with not repaying the bonus after they leave early. Even more, can say I have no problem with that. And I originally took this thread to be just that, someone looking into "do I REALLY have to pay it back".

However, I do have a problem with someone acting like they've been screwed over by being made to repay that bonus. That was the terms of the deal. Get real.

I suppose if staying would have benefitted the company. But it wouldn't have and they are furloughing hundreds of pilots. Direct entry captains saved the company when they couldn't get enough captains during the absolute best times of the aviation industry due to a lack of experience FO group. They were literally forcing FO's to upgrade to captain when legal.

Are you just a contract enthusiast or do you love fighting the companies online battles? Not a dumb argument unless you are a company boot licker.

Your buddy signed a contract. The company is bleeding cash right now and are looking at pilots currently on the seniority list to take concessions to alleviate that. Meanwhile pilots no longer associated with the airline get to keep their $20k-$40k bonuses.

The devil went down to Georgia. He was looking for a soul to steal. He ended up out a fiddle of gold. He didn't like that idea, so he backed out of the contract.

That would've been a stupid song.

Whether one’s leaving early benefitted the company or not, has nothing to do with it. By trying to spin it and rationalize it that way, quite frankly smacks of a kid’s entitlement attitude. Whatever happened to integrity? I’d advise the guy to sack up because being an adult is sooo hard sometimes. If a DEC received a large cash incentive to come and earn a higher wage (CA pay) out of seniority order by agreeing to terms, then cool, but not everyone else already here on property got that same $, so if a DEC decided on their own to leave and violate the agreement, cool, but hey the company paid so now it’s your turn. I don’t believe my attitude on this denotes being a pro-company cheerleader at all, since I’m unapologetically not. However it’s not cool for DECs to grab the cash and run. Why? Because others who ARE responsible and pay it back are disadvantaged then, as well as anyone who didn’t get that bonus. My 2 cents. Sorry for the rant just can’t stand soft, crybaby, posers claiming to be responsible airmen.


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well said. The individual was paid for a service with a time frame attached. The individual did not compete agreement as said contract this individual
signed and accepted the money for. This individual breached said contract and now is responsible to repay prorated amount of breach. Pay up loser, you chose your bed now pay for it.

Said the loser still at envoy, good luck with that flow. Im glad Im not with this pilot group anymore. My friend is going to pay up. A small price to pay for getting out of that toxic environment. You guys will never learn.

...said the 145 driver on WARN.


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I am not a 145 driver or on WARN, nor is my buddy.

I suspect that the company would save even more by getting their 12k back.

Lol I'm sure this is all about your "buddy" 😂😂

Get real. It has nothing to do with being a company chearleader. You signed a contract. You got 45k, and you only have to pay 12k back after a year and a half, what'd your "buddy" do, blow it all in a few months?

Try getting a car loan and the car breaking down then telling the financer you're not paying because the car doesn't work, or not paying your mortgage because the roof is leaking and see how that works out for you. You signed an agreement, own up to it.

Edit: I just realized you said your "buddy" left in 2019, and your argument is now that, a year later, the company is furloughing and downgrading you somehow did them a favor? Somehow more delusional than the kooj

my bad it was 2020

This thread should be closed. If you signed the agreement and failed to comply with the contractual agreement there is not much you can do.

did I hit a nerve. What does where one is employed have to do with the fact you or your buddy signed a contract and are in breach of same contract and have to repay the money for the breach in contract that you did not honor. Not a company cheerleader but the fact your upset indicates how irresponsible you and your buddy are on honoring your agreements. Hope your fellow employees where ever you are now at are more honorable than you and your buddy are.
pay up. No sympathy here for dead beats.
go talk to nanci.

Thanks for the help guys, really put it into perspective that all who left made the right choice regardless of money owed. Keep telling yourself that fulfilling lopsided contracts is honorable. I bought out of a bad deal and so will my buddies.

I wish you all prosperous careers and happy lives.

afaik nothing in my contract that says I have to help the company collect on their contracts. Might be prudent to show the DEC contract to a labor attorney and get their ideas on how to exit strategically BEFORE you quit.

Well reading comprehension matters. It was called a “Retention Bonus” not just a no strings bonus. So there’s nothing lopsided about it. It was completely voluntary. No sense in demonizing the company over it. Same with speeding tickets; go ahead and speed, just don’t demonize the police when they pull you over.


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Recovery of the money would keep them flying for another hour and 23 minutes.

Signing bonuses are not unique to Envoy or the airlines. If a repayment clause is included up front you have very little legal wiggle room if they enforce it. Best option is to consult a lawyer.

So if it benefits the Company said pilot could have requested to be let out of the contract citing the additional training and administrative cost for keeping that slot filled by him vs waiving the company rights. I know - logic - too much to ask in this industry.

They still selling “The Flow”? Is it still 5.5 years?

If it teaches you that SIGNING lopsided contracts is STUPID, then it probably was a very valuable experience for you, well worth the cost.

You might want to ask THkooj about this. Envoy/AA 's cheerleader.

If you ask him, there is something in the works, and it is actually closer to 4 years now.