Current reality
 

Sorry if some of this is repetitive, but many of the threads are so dated or have gone down rabbit holes its hard to find current information. Basically, I am wondering what the real, current situation with pilots at Envoy is. Before Coronavirus, envoy had shortages and mandatory Captain upgrades. Are we back to pilot shortages, with all pilots wanting to return back now? And has enough time passed to see what affect the last 12 months had on seniority (particularly more senior pilots - are they leaving, or sticking it out looking for flow?). Finally, how does bidding for Captain upgrade go, and can you wait to build seniority or is it mandatory and you just get what you get? Do you bid just to upgrade, or do you bid by aircraft, then base?

filler.......

If one looks at those leaving, it is PRIMARILY senior FOs leaving to ACMI and ULLCs. There are a FEW that are leaving to majors whether be UAL/DAL/FDX/UPS. Those few that are leaving to a major are likely prior military that weren’t current or very low time when they came here or had some other “distinguishing” qualifier. There are VERY few leaving that are line holding captains, which if you align all the data says those facts still aren’t favoring off the street hiring of regional captains. We’ll see what the next six months really holds as new applications at the majors of that group gets looked at.

Because of this lull, and displacements, the seniority list has very much stratified. There are plenty of FOs with the flight time to upgrade but not seniority to do so. Those are primarily the ones leaving. There MAY come a time a few years down the road where this lull in hiring catches up to those leaving and ENY doesn’t have enough qualified FOs. That could lead to DECs again, since ENY has been lagging everyone else in hiring, and that could lead to forced upgrades, but you are looking at way down the road.

When you bid for upgrade, you are bidding for a base and an aircraft. But that base and aircraft has to be available to get it. Let’s say you want to be a 175 captain in ORD. It can be on your bid, but there has to be a vacancy. You can’t just say I want to be a 175 captain or I want to be a captain in DFW. Your bid has to be base and equipment. But you can easily put your bid in to include both aircraft in DFW or all three bases in 175 and you will end up with what is available if your seniority can hold something you bid.

How senior is Miami on the FO side? can a FNG hold it out of training? TIA.

things change, but currently junior enough. Provided you get a 175, which is not a given by any stretch of imagination, because if you are on 145 you won't see MIA until you upgrade.

Thanks BigZ, are there seat locks? Or can you bid the other aircraft right away?

FOs cant bid jet to jet.
If you get 145 as a new hire, you will stay as a 145 FO until you upgrade or they park the fleet.

or displace you from the base in a downsize, or close the base and displace you.

If you aren't coming back from an LOA or a cadet with significant longevity, chances of being on the E145 are .. high.

I agree with pretty much everything except forced upgrades. They will happen again. Senior FOs on the 175 will realize they can make almost as much as a junior CA on the 145 and stay put. 145 FOs will have high attrition and struggle to gain 1000 hours.

Everyone hired right now will be forced to upgrade.

this guy gets it.

145 and 175 are two different airlines.

All crews are being raped right now. 175 guys at least get some lube, 145 crews use their own blood and tears.

Yeah, but $h!t from crew scheduling and management still isn’t very good lube.

Bid DFW. MR has turned into CW but more polite.

AE is turning same. No good CPOs left.
Dinging pilots with MA over illegal reassignments (like ACARS ras etc), denying every single BR for non blood relatives etc.

Bull****.


​​​​​​​

That sucks but what I heard about MR doing to try to suss out people sitting reserve out of position was way worse.

I would argue that MR is worse than CW as CW didn’t go on witch hunts for pilots not being in base on reserve.

It’s the same at SkyWest, just switch 145 for CRJ. Heck even two completely different training departments.

Can't disagree with you there. How old is MR? How can you have a chief pilot who isn't a pilot?

He is not the chief pilot. RN is the CP for 119 purposes.

A base CP doesn’t have to be an active pilot. They could go out and name a bucket of used lav juice the new CP and the FAA wouldn’t care. RN is the “chief pilot” for the 119 certificate and he’s the only one of that counts.

Used to be a CP had to be a qualified line pilot on one of the aircraft in the base you were cp of. You also could not get junior manned as long as the chief pilot was available ( In the office ). But I regress thats when we ( I ) was represented by apa and not alpo (alpa).

Gross. I'd rather deal with RN 9/10, at least he gives the pilot the benefit of the doubt or takes intent into consideration sometimes.

It's a pretty sad cautionary tale actually. I use to fly with lifers on the WSCOD that got their type ratings from MR back in the day, they said he was a good guy. Something's changed since then, to say the least.

pshhhhhh. If I remember correctly, when they reopened NYC, RF wasn’t even a Capt. Let alone he was on a different fleet that was no longer there.

Correct, RF was a CRJ FO when he first started as CP when LGA reopened with 145’s, then upgraded on the 145 while there.

Honestly he was okay to deal with from a contract grievance/rep perspective compared to other CP’s at the time.

Same folks in management positions as under the old AMR.... nothing has changed, if anything it’s gotten worse under RW.