2 Year Commitment
 

It’s a little confusing but it looks like Envoy is requiring signing a two-year commitment letter for training. Can anyone explain? Isn’t that illegal?

It's probably a two year commitment for the bonus.

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Are you talking initial training or ATP-CTP? Training contracts for ATP-CTP are pretty standard fare.

Many (not all) regionals used to require them for signing bonuses, too.

Pay for your own ATP-CTP and don’t accept the bonus. No contract required.
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That’s what’s confusing. I already have my ATP yet the paperwork they sent me seems to be saying the commitment is for the ATP training.

read the fine print, they will come after you if u quit early.. gotta pay back taxes and all

Has anyone here been through this? i.e. quitting before two years and had to pay something back?

Yeah don't pay it

Apparently the two-year commitment is for the ATP training.

Two year commitment for what, $3,000? That’s a bit harsh.

There is no upfront bonus money at envoy that does not have a commitment clause.

That’s an accurate statement for probably almost all employers. Whether it’s outsourced training or signing bonuses. A lot of smaller places especially have training contracts that put you on the hook for some kind of pay back if you leave before a year or two.

Yep, I was in the private sector before flying and any signing bonus came with a hook. Work it off or pay it back.

Bad advice.

How about: “Take the bonus, just budget for the fact that you will need to repay it if you leave”.

Also, I’m not a CPA, but I’m fairly sure that if you repay the bonus, you can write it off on your taxes. You’ll only pay taxes on the portion you keep.

Good advice

Also good advice.

Listen, for the little money you'd owe its not worth it for them to send someone to find you and serve you papers in the state you live in. It's also not worth them paying the legal fees to recoup what will be a small fraction of the money. They'll send you intimidating letters threatening legal action but it's all smoke. The worst they can do is hit your credit and lets face it, by that time you'll be working at Sun Country and won't be able to afford a new house or car anyways so your credit score is irrelevant.

Just FYI, your credit score is NEVER irrelevant. Your credit will be checked anytime you apply for a loan or try to rent a house or apartment. If you have a knock on your score for failure to repay a debt, landlords may choose not to rent to you.

You want a better mortgage rate or loan rate? Have good credit.

Character matters. You aren’t entitled to walk away from a consent agreement without penalty.

If you don’t want to accept the risk, don’t agree.

Don’t be foolish.

All true. Take the money and put it somewhere until you hit the end of year one then you can spend half of it and wait until you hit the end of year two and you can spend the rest. Or since you’ve been living without it, leave it where it’s at. But don’t plan to leave without paying it back. Companies spend a lot of money on lawyers and have the connections to easily send your debt out to collection and ruin your credit. And you’d be surprised what bad credit can do. A number of employers check it. Your insurance can be higher because of it.

Just like anything. Do what you think you need to.

I was going to say something along these lines. One of the most important things you can do is take care of your credit history. It effects everything. Not just whether you get the mortgage, but the rate you pay. The rate you pay on your credit cards and your auto loans. The premiums you pay for insurance. It effects where you can live. I think some employers look at it too.

As far as whether to take the money or not. Always take the money. The only way you're guaranteed to short yourself money is to not take the bonus. If you don't take the money and you stay for two years, you've lost out on $15,000 (or whatever the going rate is at the time) pe-tax dollars.

If you leave and you have to pay it back, yes, you're going to have to pay back the pre-tax value even though Envoy gave you the after-tax amount. That's because Envoy paid money to the IRS on your behalf in that amount. If you file your taxes correctly, you'll either get a bigger return, or a lesser bill so it will all come out in the wash. You will not 'lose money' on the exchange.

So, the sound is advice is to take the bonus and put it away. Learn to live on your regular wages, meager as they may be as a regional FO. That 4 digit priced Bose headset can wait, the Miata can wait longer.

Someone doesn’t know what an arbitration clause is for. It’s a low cost way to make an example out of you.

I like all the comments about weighing how it would affect your credit score or how you might just be able to get away with it bc the company is too busy to pursue it lol. How about not taking 15k of someone else’s money, and promising to do something in exchange for said money, then turning around and not doing the thing you promised to do. Life happens and maybe you have to leave early so the least you could do for not keeping your word would be to pay them back. I’m pretty sure it’s prorated after a year anyway. If your word as a human being can be thrown to the wayside so easily just because you think there is a chance the person who gave you the money won’t bother to pay a lawyer to get it back, then please stay away from any company I’m working at. Your the same pilot who will steal another pilots trips or drop your unwanted trips into their schedule just because you can and know how to work the system, or file a pipeline report behind the other pilot’s back saying how they screwed up without having the decency to let them know you are filing a report. Take your untrustworthy a$$ to another airline.

envoy reneges on their recruiting promises of 5.5 year flow, top pay, min day credit, and many more. Probably a fair trade to renege on your agreement to pay back a bonus that should be included in your regular salary anyway.

No honor among thieves.

None of those things are guaranteed in the work contract that an pilot at Envoy agrees to when they begin working here. Does that make it right for the company to imply such things? No. But even if those things were guaranteed, two wrongs don’t make a right.

Only if you bring enough for everyone. . .

verbal contracts are a thing too…especially when spoken in the presence of 30 other new hires on day 1 of INDOC.

Good luck with that.
RW says he “expects” you’ll all be at AA in 5 years. Feel free to take that to a judge as a “contract”.

Those things were or still are currently all over the recruiting website and written material.

that’s not what he said to my class. He said “in 5 years you’ll flow to AA”. Day 1.

OK. Take that to a judge 5 years from whenever you were hired. Good luck.

get used to the phrase, this a dynamic industry and things change fast. Also flow is out of envoys hand, except of how many may flow.

This almost sounds like you’re defending Envoy!

I agree. Sounded slightly defensive. Better wording would be, “It won’t be 5 years and there isn’t a damn thing you can do about it so get in line and shut up.” I don’t have any of the recruiting material, but is there an * (asterisks) anywhere on that page?

not at all. Facts are facts. Thats what mgt will say and flow is controlled by aa.

AA asked for almost triple..Envoy said no. They can fix the flow if they choose, and it would fix recruiting. We’ll see if they do anything