Direct Entry CA E175? Base?
 

Hey All,
Former Regional CA looking to spend a couple years flying something new before I retire (currently Flying Corporate Contract)
just wondering what the DEC placements look like realistically? do you start as FO and then go to Upgrade directly after FO qual? (PSA was doing that a while back)
Are there Junior Bases for the 175 for CA? I noticed that the latest Class drop went mostly DFW. Being a DEC would likely be on Reserve for a while/eternity but are there chances for Long Call as Junior CA?

Thx..

Details on long call and implementation is yet to come. By this fall likely. As far as the bottom of the reserve list getting it, unlikely.

Right now the junior 175 base is MIA for captains, but just barely. There have been no openings in ORD last two bids meaning it is trending higher.

Not hiring actual DECs at this time, so you will go through as FO and get captain when your seniority will allow it. It was dropping rapidly but with these new pay rates and LOAs it is a strange dynamic. Getting captain pay once you have 750 hours of time that counts towards upgrade may mean much less incentive to bid captain for those that know they will be junior doing so.

This next bid will be interesting indeed. The word was the retirement of 145s is accelerating, but if these new LOAs and pay significantly increase the ability to hire, train and retain then it will slow that down.

Of course this is the airline industry. The next crash is always just around the corner and with current inflation and slow down of the economy, it might be even sooner than later.

Isn't it really just going to poach a few pilots from Endeavor, with the attrition to mainline or the LCCs, continuing? Then what happens when Endeavor and every other serious airline match the pay rates? I would think with the high fuel prices that would finally kill off 50 seaters everywhere, but they still manage to survive like cockroaches. The severity of the economic downturn is the only question at this point, since it has already started. I'm just surprised it's taking this long and that there are people out there who still have enough money to travel or buy a house.

The biggest problem you will encounter is you will be perpetually on reserve unless a more direct entry captains are hired junior to you. It's a bit of a ponzi scheme really.

Every time a senior FO upgrades they will move above you on the reserve list. If you live in base it's tolerable but just make sure you know what you are getting yourself into.

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Any thoughts, please, as to whether (or not) the long reserve times for DEC's might be the same at PSA and Piedmont?

During a recent virtual info session it was suggested that reserve times for a DEC at Piedmont would only be a matter of months, not years.

(Perhaps due to the smaller pilot group?)

Just looking to confirm that from the pilot-side of things vs what it is that a recruiter is putting out.

Many thanks!

I'd be truly amazed if that were the case at any regional airline, WO or not, unless they were on the precipice of disappearing (as in days, not even months or years).

Anyone who has spent any time at a 121 carrier and understands how seniority works should understand the idea of a DEC holding a line in months is laughable.

reserve time is a function of how many were hired behind you.
last time around, the guys on the front side of the DEC group did okay, the ones on the back side of it did a stint as FOs after covid downgrade.
same for reserve - some only did a brief stint there, some - see above. Function of where exactly you fall on that DEC timeline

It’s hard to argue with this post. One would be a fool to oppose this statement. I’d only go as far to say we are in uncharted waters and nothing would surprise me at this point in time.

I have previous 121 and have been out for a few years. I want to come in and be an FO and gain seniority the old fashioned way, then upgrade when the QOL would make it worth it. I guess nobody wants to do it that way anymore though. Kinda concerning when people who havent flown in years are being put straight into the left seat next to some kid who just graduated from Riddle.

This is valid. And your age and wisdom is showing. Once you get back into things and start getting comfortable with the plane and operation you’ll likely want to hop over to the left seat. The problem is that Envoy is desperate for bodies, especially captains and started displacing to, or forcing upgrade to, captain. You probably won’t get a chance to wait.

Honest question: Any thoughts on how a (potential) DEC might approach the "credibility" gap between him/herself... (if he/she is just getting back into 121)... when flying with a super-sharp FO that (very likely) knows more about the operation, more about the airports, and more about recent changes to how things are now being done in the regional environment?

Asked another way: I can't even imagine how frustrating it might be for someone sitting in the right-seat to have to deal with a DEC that is (relatively speaking) behind the power curve on some of the airline-specific ground and administrative stuff... so yes, in all sincerity, any thoughts or suggestions on how to approach this would be most welcome!

If qualified you can direct entry Captain in Fort Worth flying ATR 72's for Silver Airways (Amazon Prime cargo)

I flew as an FO with someone who fits the description. Luckily it was only a turn.. unfortunately the company doesn't take into account how long ago you got your 121 hours, as long as it looks good on paper they’ll force the upgrade.

Thanks Chato, I appreciate you offering this. In my case it's not so much a matter of how old and moldy my 121 time is... it's that it was (very recently) acquired hauling on-demand, 121 freight. So yeah, very comfortable going into and out of desolate places, in uncontrolled airspace, at 3 AM... or even major metropolitan airports in the middle of the day... but it was always en route to some odd corner of the airport where there was a freight ramp.

Navigating gates, allies, pax... and all that "stuff" associated with moving people... it will all be new. And the absolute last thing I want to lack is cred with the folks I'm flying with. Not certain if there's a way to get around being on the backside of this particular curve, but I figured asking questions was one of the places to start.

Thanks again for the glimpse into this dynamic from the right-seat... it really is appreciated.

The idea of DECs like the ones I flew with as a NH flying with the new hire FOs hitting the line now is frankly terrifying to me. We’ve had a lot of brain drain in the training department and a lot of institutional knowledge has gone out the door with those pilots. I predict craters.

I second this, unfortunately.
I sat js recently on a DEC on OE and it was sketchy as hell.
I was frankly mad by the time we landed, as the bugger was so far behind the airplane it was incompressible that this tool was going to be on the line within weeks beside a new guy straight off IOE.
All we need as an industry is a crater and the public catching wind of how green the dude with four stripes might be.

I did a JFK-YYZ turn with a Mesa DEC who had been CRJ PHX and he was worth approximately zero on the flight. Had no clue how to get around or how the 145 worked. It was a wonderful time. Thankfully it was only the one time. He was a nice person but woefully unprepared to be in the seat.

New to the captain seat, new to the plane, new to the base or new to the company. One of those at a time is usually enough to manage. You start having to deal with two or more and it tends to be a recipe for problems, and as I pointed out in another thread, there was an FAA letter about ten pages long that outlined many of those. Fortunately none have been catastrophic, yet. Hopefully it will remain that way, but as overall experience levels plummet, people are flying in borrowed time…

I’m assuming you mean the 175. Mesa doesn’t have 145s.

Mesa operated 145’s for Delta in the mid 2000’s. But the way in interpreted that story was the guy was a CRJ pilot in PHX with Mesa, then came to Envoy as a 145 DEC.

The 145 was the new airplane the DEC flew

No, I meant exactly what I said. He flew the CRJ at Mesa and was clueless on how to fly the 145 at Envoy.