Originally Posted by pitchattitude
(Post 3454247)
It may make more sense stated this way. Giving up the seniority you have one place isn’t always worth the seniority you get somewhere else, for all the aforementioned reasons.
So I guess you CAN still say seniority is everything. Regarding "skipping" or "delaying flow", I generally see it this way. If you're an older guy that was on the fence regarding staying or flowing, this new LOA might be enough to get you off the fence and be happy with the decision to stay. But if you intend to leave Envoy for another airline regardless, delaying seems shortsighted. |
Originally Posted by highfarfast
(Post 3454309)
There are a lot of pilots at Envoy that agree with this. We generally call them lifers. Nothing wrong with that.
Regarding "skipping" or "delaying flow", I generally see it this way. If you're an older guy that was on the fence regarding staying or flowing, this new LOA might be enough to get you off the fence and be happy with the decision to stay. But if you intend to leave Envoy for another airline regardless, delaying seems shortsighted. all they saw was how expensive the senior guys were. We asked them how expensive cancelled flights and planes sitting idle was…. covid gave them two years extra to smarten up. they made the right move, were first to do it, but it was still later than it should have been. If they’d done it back in 2016, they’d have lots more people entering the profession who’d be ready to sign on the line right now. Instead they waited until it became a crisis. It will be another 2-3 years before the influx of people getting into the profession now are ready. |
Originally Posted by pitchattitude
(Post 3453097)
Not always.
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Originally Posted by Twr199
(Post 3456792)
Definitely always…it’s literally why some lifers won’t leave. eg days off, vacation, upgrade, equipment, training, schedule flexibility. The more senior you are the more $ you can make.
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Originally Posted by Cujo665
(Post 3455439)
That is exactly what they’re hoping for. We told them back in 2014-2016 that it would be the lifers that kept the company flying when they can’t keep captains.
all they saw was how expensive the senior guys were. We asked them how expensive cancelled flights and planes sitting idle was…. covid gave them two years extra to smarten up. they made the right move, were first to do it, but it was still later than it should have been. If they’d done it back in 2016, they’d have lots more people entering the profession who’d be ready to sign on the line right now. Instead they waited until it became a crisis. It will be another 2-3 years before the influx of people getting into the profession now are ready. I mean honestly defending a model that has been broken since the old Pan Am/ Pan Am express days. Comair is rolling in its grave right now. |
Originally Posted by snuffleupagus69
(Post 3456834)
Oh my lord there is so much wrong with this statement there is no amount of time in the world worth correcting this archaic rant!
I mean honestly defending a model that has been broken since the old Pan Am/ Pan Am express days. Comair is rolling in its grave right now. |
Originally Posted by Cujo665
(Post 3457412)
there was no defending anything. Management was the ones refusing to admit they’d destroyed their incubation system and that a crisis was coming.
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Originally Posted by Da Magic
(Post 3452741)
Just wondering if anyone that’s due to flow in the next few months will forgo or wait a few months to make that decision?
Asked a different way: Is the money worth it to stay at envoy vs losing a few months of seniority at AA? Thought you only get the maxed out pay scale early if you have “yes” selected on your flow preference. That’s the way it’s been presented at Piedmont. |
Originally Posted by Otterbox
(Post 3457615)
Thought you only get the maxed out pay scale early if you have “yes” selected on your flow preference. That’s the way it’s been presented at Piedmont.
|
Originally Posted by TransWorld
(Post 3457499)
So, we can play the blame game, ad infinitum. But we live in the reality of now. The question is what is the industry, both airlines and pilots, going to do, moving forward?
they could increase CPA FFD rates to keep their vendors able to staff, but I consider this unlikely without the other big two raising their FFD rates also….. it’s easier to just buy the company, planes, pilots, equipment and all before or during the bankruptcy. I’ve been saying this since 2013 that we were around 5-6 years away from a crisis. Covid delayed it 2 years. They’re going to need age 67, and to start not just paying more, but having significant improvements to working conditions. This modern generation can make $5k-$10k a month with various online sales and automated marketing stuff that I’ll admit I just don’t get. Why commute on days off to crashpads sitting airport standby after having spent $175k-$250k getting your ratings and experience to make less than $90k at the best paying regional, and around $40k at the worst. there is also the possibility of merging mainline with a consolidated owned regional. With the rates they’re paying now it would be cheaper. Folks would also take the $90 an hour to fly the E175 as the entry level AA jet, because they’d be actual APA pilots instead of waiting to flow. The closer the costs get, the less attractive maintaining 4 separate administrations and training departments becomes. We almost sold them on single list back in 2013-2014; with some effort it should be a much easier sell now. |
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