DEC Repayment Bonus Agreement
 

Any recently-hired DEC's look at/read closely the DIRECT ENTRY CAPTAIN (DEC) +Type BONUS REPAYMENT AGREEMENT?

It holds us accountable for 36 months, yet only guarantees a small portion of the DEC Bonus. In my case, it's $37,500.
There's another roughly $125,000 paid out at the end of year 1,2, and 3 that is not addressed and therefore, not guaranteed.

The agreement specifically says, "NOTHING THAT YOU READ ON THE INTERNET (OR ANYWHERE ELSE) OR ARE TOLD BY OTHER PILOTS (OR ANYONE ELSE) CHANGES THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT."
That statement tells me I can disregard everything that was promised in the new hire recruitment meeting as well as what is published on the "Pilot Wage Calculator" page.

Another statement that's concerning, states that the pilot acknowledges and agrees, "any and all additional compensation, including but not limited to bonuses for retention and performance are not guaranteed and will be paid out subject to the terms and conditions of the collective bargaining agreement between Envoy and the Union or at Envoy’s sole discretion."

Anyone on property received the additional Captain Bonuses yet?

Anyone aware of whether the CBA addresses the current Captain bonus structure?

Thanks

Yes. The BIG money is the retention bonus. Most DECs will never see this as it is either payable when leaving for AA or has some pretty big hooks if you take it with the intention of being an Envoy “lifer”.

Did you really expect a big chunk of money and then be able to keep it if you left? That’s the whole point of throwing that money out there, to KEEP you in indentured servitude.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. The point is that the agreement the company is asking DEC's to sign is only guaranteeing the initial $37,500 (less without the type rating bonus). Yet, in the literature, on the website, and at the initial meeting, they are touting a figure of $162,500 in bonuses over three years. My concern is that should the company choose to suspend those other bonuses that are not outlined in this agreement, we DEC's will have no recourse.

And just to correct your statement above, the majority of the bonus is paid out at the end of IOE ($32,500) at one year anniversary ($50,000). Subsequent bonuses are $40K each at the end of years two and three. Only $25K is promised at the time of flow. And to answer your rhetorical question, no I don't expect to keep a big chunk of money if I leave early and yes, I understand the point of the three year contract.

Let me restate my question in the original post, anyone aware of whether the CBA addresses the current Captain bonus structure? I assume there is an LOA regarding this that outlines the specifics.

There's no DEC bonus LOA, there's a retention bonus LOA that your DEC stuff most likely ties into.
retention bonus loa covers 150k of your bonuses.
you won't get the 40k's paid at the end of year 2/3, you accrue them, and you'll receive them on your last paycheck (together with the 25k buh-bye) when flowing/hired at AA. Not DAL/UAL/NK/JB - AA.
Or arrive at your flow date and elect not to flow.
because that 150k is there to retain you.

I’m pretty sure that NONE of the language for ANY hiring bonus is in any LOA. The only thing I remember seeing in an LOA about hiring was about the company increasing FO pay to higher steps if they thought it was necessary to remain competitive. Everything about HIRING bonuses is not in CBA LOAs because those are not made with the union. Those are outside the CBA because they don’t benefit union members. Pretty much every union operates on the principle that if the CBA is good enough, hiring bonuses aren’t required. If you want to attract and RETAIN quality employees, provide an attractive CBA.

The options for those who become captains after the date of the LOA, so new hires, which DECs are, to take the retention payouts early all come with an additional commitment of three years at each payment.

I hope I’m not getting regionaled already. I was hired as an FO with 950+ and Captain qualified.
I was told by recruiting I’d be getting:
15,000 121 sign on
7500 type
10000 FO sign on
30000 CA sign on bonus (provided I get the CA slot first day of class
All after OE. Not sure about the 5000/10000 retention bonus but I’m pretty sure I was told I’d get that too.

You’re mixing up “sign on bonus” and “retention bonus” details. Regardless, they all come with strings attached. You’re not gonna get to keep it if you just stay long enough to complete OE and head off to Southwest of wherever.

I’m not trying to head off anywhere. I’m hoping the pay rested stay or I flow, or we all get absorbed. I’m just saying that when I went ro oreientation, the recruiter showed me the chart with the bonuses, the same one on the website. He said I’m getting what I mentioned above ATC the end of OE.
just in sign on bonuses I should be getting 15K for 121 sign on bonus, 7K for type rating bonus, 10K for FO sign on bonus, and 30K for Captain sign on bonus, all payable at the end of OE. That’s 62K in bonuses at the end of OE by my math.
I’m not trying to get a bonus and then split. But I’m also not going to have someone lie to me and say I’m getting 60-8oK at the end of OE, only to find out day 1 you get 15k initially, and the rest after year 5

Not sure on what all the individual sign on amounts are, but pretty sure the $30K CAPTAIN bonus is not paid until completion of captain IOE. Again, all the sign on bonuses are outside the CBA, but the $30K is part of the CBA LOA, as are all the retention bonuses so not included in your initial contract or paid at the beginning.

Ran into a DEC doing a ride-along who was being screwed out of a year of longevity "at Envoy's sole discretion" despite being entitled to it based on what Envoy advertised and promised. Do not count on Envoy to act in good faith, do not trust anything they say.

Did they say why Envoy was shorting them? I've got 5 years' of 121 to carryover from my last job but it's from 2009. I asked the recruiter when I came down for background check and logbook verification if they had any limit on how far back they would honor prior 121 service for longevity and they told me no.

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Per the: "AMENDED AND RESTATED PILOT RETENTION AND BONUS PROGRAM" LOA

c. First Officers Hired After the Effective Date shall be eligible to receive
payments as follows:
i. $15,000 within 30 days after the pilot’s one-year seniority anniversary
as an Envoy First Officer, if the Envoy First Officer has the required
Qualifying Hours in the preceding 12-month period;
ii. $30,000 within 30 days of completing 950 Captain qualifying flight
hours (applicable Part 121.436 flight time for PIC qualification),
provided that they must complete the required 950 Captain
qualifying flight hours no later than four years from the pilot’s date
of hire with Envoy;
iii. $40,000 within 30 days of their one-year anniversary of completing
IOE training as an Envoy Captain if the Envoy Captain has the
required Qualifying Hours in the preceding 12-month period;
iv. $40,000 within 30 days of their two-year anniversary of completing
IOE training as an Envoy Captain if the Envoy Captain has the
required Qualifying Hours in the preceding 12-month period; and
v. $25,000 to be included in their final paycheck as an Envoy employee
if they are hired by American as a pilot while they are employed by
Envoy through flow-up.

Read this as you may. Above is in addition to what is promised per the "DIRECT ENTRY CAPTAIN (DEC) +Type
BONUS REPAYMENT AGREEMENT" we all were asked to sign as DECs.

I think this is adds up to the total of all the verbiage covering what was promised on the website wage calculator and in the new hire interview and logbook review. Feel free to respond if I've missed something.

Not sure if I read the DEC bonus repayment agreement correctly and need help. "Prior to Pilot's first day of employment with Envoy, Envoy will make a lump sum payment to Pilot of ...., LESS APPLICABLE TAX and WITHHOLDINGS." "...if Pilot resigns or is terminated for any reason at any point within 24 months..., pilot agrees to repay some or all of the PRE-TAX amount of any DEC Bonus payment paid to Pilot."

If they awarded me $100k sign on bonus and l received $70k after tax, I still have to pay the company back full $100k even though i never receive the full amount?

The language that you've described makes clear that the repayable amount is the pre-tax value.

If I take one hundred dollars out of my pocket and give it to you, I'm out one hundred dollars. I don't care that you give part of it to your mother, spend part on gum balls, and drink the rest, or give some to the government. It doesn't change the amount that came out of my pocket: a hundred bucks. If we have an agreement that you learn to ride a unicycle within thirty days, or you owe me the hundred bucks, I don't care that you had to pay taxes, if if you bought a nice shirt with the money; it's still a hundred bucks that's owed, and if the agreement spells out that it's pre-tax and the full value, then that's the deal; you owe me the hundred bucks.

Good explaination, thanks! So basically Envoy uses this "tax/withholding" as a leverage of training bond. By accepting this bonus, I've gotta be blindfolded for any other job opportunities during this 24 months or over $20k in debt!

No.

You enter into an agreement to repay the money, if you don't fulfill your part. Period. End of story. The tax that you pay isn't leverage. It's your problem. You owe tax, you pay it.

The airline offers you a certain amount of money. That's what comes out of their coffers. What you do with that money is your choice. Also your problem. If you don't fulfill your end, and you have to pay it back, then you have to pay it all back. They gave it to you. You have to give it back.

Call it incentive, leverage, pressure, enticement, a carrot, or whatever you will; it's the airline sweetening the deal to get you to come to work. This sweetness comes with terms, as do all contracts. It behooves anyone entering into an agreement to know the terms. You don't fly an airplane without knowing the limitations; exceed them, and there may be a price to be paid. You don't enter into a contract with the airline without knowing the terms. Violate them, and it may cost you; there is a price to be paid.

Yes, the idea is that by taking the money, you will be honorable and fulfill your end of the bargain. If you don't, then yes, it will cost you. That's the whole point of the agreement. It's not a free lunch.

The tax is a requirement of the federal government. That you are taxed on your income does not change the fact that the airline offered you the conditional bonus; if you owe the conditional bonus back for failing to abide the conditions, the airline wants its money back. All of it. Regardless of what you did with the money. Regardless of whether you gave it to the government, your ex-wife, or bought a really nice enclosure for your Goldfish, Sally.

This leaves you with choice: stay and fulfill your obligation with time in service, or pay back the money you owe for failing to fulfill your obligation. The company hopes you do the former. That's why they offered the incentive. If you choose the latter, they expect you to honor that. Otherwise, there may be legal action.

For a long time now, bad advice has circulated, "those contracts aren't enforceable." Listen to bad advice at your own risk.

That’s the part that scares me. Rumor is that Envoy “usually” comes after the after tax net amount, but it’s right there in writing they can demand the full pre-tax amount back. Say one of us fails training or turns the wrong way after taking off from ORD and gets fired in the first year, they can instantly demand all their money back even if you didn’t intend to leave. The good thing is it’s pro-rated after a year.

My internet research shows that if you repay a bonus in the same calendar year, the company can, if they choose, recoup the taxes themselves through filing paperwork. If you pay it back in a different calendar year, they expect the full amount back and you need to try to get your taxes back on your tax return. Standard bonus withholding is 22% federal, 1.45% Medicare tax, 6.2% Social Security tax, plus state tax; you can file amended tax returns but Medicare and Social Security would be harder, or maybe impossible, to recover.

My gut says don’t sign it, it’s a trap. It’s tempting though. Good luck with your decision. See you in Orientation on Thursday.

Same thing is going on with people not fulfilling their student loan obligations. You sign for it, you’re responsible for it. Too many bottom feeding free loaders in this generation.

The risk is, Envoy loves to fire probie pilots. Get 010 and 100 mixed up on a takeoff from ORD and boom, you're fired. Call out sick 3 times your first year, boom, you're fired. Check a bag that's a bit too heavy when non-reving and boom, you're fired.

I wouldn't call any of the above free loaders.