One List
 

My friend play golf with Envoy president and has been friend with him for long time. Last week he met him and the latest news is new payrates are hurting the company and AA looking to combine Envoy and AA to one list of pilots. He said AA wants everything under one umbrella so they can control payrates for 175.

I would think they would do the same for PSA and Piedmont. My crystal ball says this will happen with Endeavor and (sort of already has) with Horizon. Other regionals will go belly up or combine. Only a handful of free standing regionals will remain. I have been predicting this for several years, even when I was called crazy and it was impossible.

The only problem with your theory is that AA already closely controls the pay rates and bonus structure for their 3 wholly-owneds. Same old same old mantra "United / Delta / American are going to merge in the regional partner and the seniority list." We were talking about this same topic in 2008. Playing golf with a friend and having a few adult beverages may lead one to make opinionated comments but it's not happening. Not with Endeavor. Or Envoy. Or PSA. Or Piedmont. Regional airlines serve a financial purpose for the major airline partners and it won't change anytime soon. Please review my comment in 5 years and call me out if I'm wrong.

Wait. I heard this rumor back in 1998 too.

Can't believe the absurdity of anyone STILL buying this BS. As former Eagle mid 2000s to mid 2010's, I heard this crap on the first day of indoc. "Everybody will be at AA in 5 years." Then I heard it over and over and over for my entire stint there. Depending on where you live, age and your QOL goals, AA might not even be the first choice for many out there. AAs work rules aren't known to be the best and if you're STILL waiting on a pay raise in this environment then management truly has their head stuck really far up their own backsides. I'm sure you'll have some 1500 hour CFIs who just started at Envoy who go all Goo Goo Gaa Gaa over these types of BS rumors but it's not happening. Things change, the AA of today has lost a lot of their former luster. Alongside Southwest, who I tried valiantly to get hired on at during a large part of my Eagle days. Never could get the time of day from them until I moved on to the LCC world and upgraded. Then I was offered an interview but declined. Southwest of today is nothing like the Southwest of 10 years ago. Same with AA.

Heard same rumors at XJT at least once a year from early 2000’s til they shut the doors.

Ya know, if AA did indeed want to bring regional airplanes in house, it would be a lot simpler to transfer the airplanes to AA, close the WOs, and hire to fill those seats than it ever would be to merge or staple seniority lists.

The whole problem with bringing the pilots to the mainline is it not just the pay rates of the pilots that has to be considered. It’s the ENTIRE cost of the pilot contract. Even though AA contract total compensation lags United and Delta, even with the new pay rates, total compensation (retirement, healthcare, etc) at the regional level is below that of mainline. You also have to consider the total compensation for flight attendants and expense of the hotels that are provided on the regional level verses mainline for both pilots and FAs. Let’s not forget mechanics, and dispatchers.

As long as keeping flying out of mainline can save a penny, it will remain to be so.

Lol I thought that big announcement on February 1st was gonna be that. One list. Well they are gonna have to figure out something soon! We are all leaving for Delta & United in droves. That premium pay extension ain’t helping our attrition issues I can say that.

One List……Not
 

Nice try troll, but the President of Envoy does not play golf !!

Should have known after the first 2 words in that statement that it was b.s.

Didn't need to the know the "golf" thing to know it was bogus. Companies are going to choose the path of least resistance to obtain their goals. If they wanted to bring regional airplane in house, they'd just do it and hire the pilots to fill those seats. Would be a hell of a lot easier than the negotiations that would be needed to merge/staple seniority lists.

The original poster isn't far off. This is something that's been on the table for a long time. With the pay rate increases that have happened in the last year, this issue has been driven to the front burner. I can confirm that it is being discussed at high levels and the burning question is exactly how to absorb Envoy and bring the pilots over onto the current AA contract. Being that AA is in negotiations with the pilots now is somewhat of a plus as it's something that has been broached as to how to incorporate this into the proposed TA. With everything that I'm hearing, I would expect further traction as negotiations continue.

For anyone new to the Envoy forum, the last post is from the resident Envoy management stooge, who I believe is not even here anymore. Expect posts that paint a rosy picture and rumors that will never come true from him.

Wait, what? That post is a year old. Where’s that order of new 175s for Envoy? That coming with the AA seniority numbers? Just give up and go back to your corner in momma’s basement with your Microsoft Flight Sim.

You're full of sh*t, as always.
If you knew what you were talking about, you would have seen the list that was created a few years ago. Have you seen it?

Why do all of you obsess over this? You already get to flow over in a few years no matter how fat and stupid you are. Group 1 rates are a big pay cut for your new rates anyhow.

Those rates are not permanent. And with the “wonderful flow”, AA has greatly reduced hiring from within the WOs.

An actual AA seniority list number would be worth more to many. That being said, I’m not one to believe it will ever happen, which is why I was quick to refute lackeys like CR700.

My Magic 8 Ball says PDT will be gone in less than 5 yrs. PSA merges into Envoy. The 145s get sold to JetSuiteX et. al. One WO to mainline, Endeavor to DAL style.

Nah, whipsaw works better when you have more than one WO. If the regional model survives, there'll be more than one WO.

Poster above was pretty close. Those 145s have a lifespan of less than 5 years. PDT is having serious trouble staffing even with the new payrates. I can also tell you that the conversations about one list are specific to Envoy and AA. If PSA is having their own conversation with AA, then I'm unaware. I've heard absolutely zero about any talks between PSA and AA. I do know the conversation with Envoy/AA has been regular and productive. Just a lot of kinks to iron out to make it a reality at present.

I answered Eagle ALPA polling questions on this topic in circa 2003. I’m sure they are getting right to it. Y’all still have the Hat Police at DFW?

And I can tell you you are lying.

I've seen the list you are talking about and you are FOS.

So, you admit there is a list then? Good, we are past step one. I wouldn't expect you would know anything that's on it because you haven't worked here in quite some time.

There is a list, it's just not a list you are talking about.

I have been on some people’s list. It does not bother me.

US regional carrier Envoy Air expects six more Embraer 175s | News | Flight Global

Here you go.

While those are MORE 175s, they are NOT new. Certainly not a new order. They key is in the wording. AAG ASSIGNING six more 175s to Envoy. If lucky, they were the last six purchased that were yanked during Covid that Republic got. With the 145s going away, still a net loss of aircraft, but at least a step in the right direction.

Don’t forget the LAX base opening. Well, PHX anyway. 120 pilots. Starting small with 12 lines in both May and June.

Is Envoy really opening an LAX base or is this more rumor?

I saw that announcement yesterday and my first thought was I wonder where they are reallocating E175s from. With Mesa’s 900s being gradually pulled out of the American system there is scope room. The Air Wisconsin CRJ 200s won’t directly replace them. Envoy must be doing well to be able to expand E175 flying while retraining E145 pilots.

Essentially, PHX was decided upon in place of LAX. For the moment. As Mesa transitions out, AA wanted Envoy to fill PHX as they wanted the reliability and the superior product. As you are likely aware, Skywest is having a tough time flying their schedule. Envoy will return to LAX and it just may be sooner rather than later if Skywest is unable to deliver on their contract. The long term plan is for Envoy to fly those 175's in LAX.

You just had to say LAX, didn't you?

I feel like I am hearing bits of a long standing argument and don’t know the whole story! I think there is bitterness because LAX has been talked about before and never materialized, and still might not if SkyWest manages to pull itself together. I love to hear the back plans and strategies as a lowly DEC trainee who lives on the west coast.

An LAX base rumor has been around at least as long as 2016 (prob longer but I wasn't following before that). Seems to come from management (or at least a 7 degrees of Kevin Bacon to management) and many of us believe it's intent is for recruiting purposes and to string along guys like you who might go elsewhere but might stay here if you thought LAX was around the corner. COVID cooled the rumor a bit and PHX killed it. But then 'ole pitch had to mention it and then the guy from management jumped right in to perpetuate and reinvigorate the rumor. lol

Regardless of what Skywest does, the long term plan is for Envoy to do all of the LAX flying. PHX has now put the delay on that for some time. Expect PHX to grow quite a bit in the coming year. This time next year I could see 2 to 2.5 times the current pilot staff there. Transitioning our pilots from 145 to 175 is putting the brakes on PHX growing like gangbusters right now.

Gotta troll THE troll.
This just shows how much you try and distort things to fit your narrative. RW’s same email that talked about the ADDITIONAL 175s. (But not new. One article even said AAG is quiet about the source. Probably an agreement with FFD carrier they are coming from to save face.) The 145s will only have a few lines in May, as will PHX. But you can’t drag out the 145s going away for several more years as an excuse for not having the mythical LAX base. The last 145 pilots will be transitioned by late this summer.

You think I “accidentally” typed LAX and THEN left it and typed PHX. Just feeding the troll. You’re a sad, SAD, individual.

I might also point out that management keeps talking about it‘s “commitment” to west coast crews, in part, as a reason for the PHX base opening. Commitment has nothing to do with it. There was certainly no consideration to east coast crews when NY closed as a base. It’s just business.

So is everyone thinking the 175s are coming from Skywest LAX base?

No. The general consensus is Republic.

Looking at the www.planespotters.net website, SkyWest has 4 E175s parked, Republic has 13 E175s parked, and Mesa has 22 E175s parked. I don’t know who owns any of these planes. Mesa’s E175s are in United colors and United probably wants Mesa to eventually only operate E175s for them unless Mesa is really desperate. Republic makes the most sense.

Republic are semi there's, the first 50 that fly for aag starting with 400yx are technically aag's and if republic can't crew them then envoy will.

I honestly believe the same thing about Mesa and fairly certain the 175s are owned by United. I think Mesa saying they will keep DFW and PHX bases is just a smoke screen and stop gap to keep everyone from bolting. Operationally those two don’t work for United flying. They just need time to get their CRJ pilots trained (or replaced).