Envoy closes 3 bases in 3 years. 2 left!
 

Just announced the NY base closure.
In 2012 we had SJU, LAX, MIA, ORD, and DFW. A few years before that, we even had BOS.

It's over for envoy. The 40 airplanes coming won't be able to be staffed with the people remaining. Ive told every FO I can to get out. Go anywhere but here. This is our punishment for trying to stand up for an industry that didn't want to be stood up for.

Saving grace for me is I am retiring.

Oh and welcome to the Doug Parker playbook of lies TSA! Enjoy that tur dhole LGA base.

Oops. Supposed to be on regional forum!

Good Luck!

shocker....

Sorry to hear this. If the future only involves 40 175's, which seems too small for one carrier unless it only serves one hub, then about 400 pilots would be needed and I assume several hundred lifers are still there with 5-15 years to go till 65. Of course, filling the F/O seats might be tough, if the lifers logjam the upgrades.

I think it will take them several years to whittle Envoy down to 40 aircraft.

Not when you can give out 145s like hot cakes. 15 to TSA, 15 to ExpressJet and 20 to Peidmont in about a year? The rest of the 145s could be done easily. The "let's see them staff it" paradigm has been proven false. And once down to 40 175s, with 2 other carriers (Compass and RAH) who can easily do 175 flying, it should be slick-as-snot to move those aircraft out. Compass is already flying 20 AAG-owned planes.

It's ok. You're retiring.

Indeed I am. The fact I rushed in to post this info and didn't notice I clicked the wrong forum should be further proof of my dang senility!

There about 350 lifers at envoy right now. About 3/4 of that group have 5-12 years left. 1/4 retire in the next 5.

envoy will be, at best, a 60 airplane operation in 4-5 years. The lifers will be the captains and the poor saps that cannot get out of here due to our heavy handed training department, or they are just dingleberries, will be the FOs.

Personally, I don't even see that; I think 2-3 years and this place is dead.

Maybe. I still think Envoy won't fold for at least a few years, hence the "several" remark. I'm not so sure they're locked into any long-term decision about Envoy. It looks to me to be a slow bleed vs. a torn jugular.

With the way this is going, they won't be able to wind us down slowly or even staff 40 -175s. As if attrition isn't bad enough right now, it's about to get a hell of a lot worse. Even the "gummers" are choosing to flow now. Think this is going to increase many new hires too?? The death spiral has just gotten tighter.

But according to the advertisement, they are now hiring CFI's! Oh look, maybe YOU can be like the girl in the picture and have the PRIVILEGE of buying your own ipad, special FAA approved mount, and battery for company use (to save a multi billion dollar corporation money, of course). Oh, and FLOW THROUGH TO AMERICAN******





*If no terrorist attacks occur within the next decade (despite the fact that the current "commander in chief" is too much of a pathetic coward to even label terrorists as terrorists for fear of hurting their feelings)

*Provided that envoy airlines is still in business six (6) years from now despite having a management team whose members can do nothing but whine and shift blame (garbage truck operations in Puerto Rico are better managed than this airline. Just ask our passengers, they'll tell you)

*Provided that the company does not brazenly and intentionally violate the flowthrough section of the contract because they feel like it (contractual adherence is optional for envoy management)

*Provided that American hires non-stop for the next six (6) years straight (if not, you're stuck at fourth year regional FO salary for the foreseeable future, good luck!)

*Provided that your chief pilot does not put you on a $ hit list for anything they choose. (If so... no flow for you)

*Provided that no additional "undefers" appear out of the woodwork and shut the flowthrough program down for months at a time

Thrustlever has spoken!

Hey, I like the name !

Your obsession with calling me "Thrustlever" has been approved ! :D

Why even waste time on a 170/75 program?

Because a certain well-connected AA FO needs a "special assignment" so that he can be home every night.

So all of this, an entire new aircraft type for Envoy, a new contract after multiple failed negotiations, LOAs, talks of a retention plan, gearing up training for the E175, Sims, and so on...

All of this for Jim Winkley?? You shouldn't be allowed around sharp objects. Please, please by all means resign today and go work for Mesa. The more of your kind we weed out the better we will all be. I don't normally go nuclear but holy crap man...you are one special specimen.

What 2 bases are left then?

Detecting sarcastic facetiousness isn't one of your strong points, is it?

DFW and ORD


Until next week...

ORD and DFW. Where we're steadily becoming the minority. Hell, Dfw has old eagle planes (680, 685, 687 to name a few) that are being flown by XJT pilots. This place is a whole new level of suck!

Shouldn't it be "closes 4 bases, 2 left"....LAX, MIA, SJU, and LGA/JFK

Sounds like Endeavor.

MEM, ATL, DTW, MSP, and JFK. Down to DTW, MSP, and JFK/LGA. From 900's, 200's, Saabs, 1900's, and Q400's down to end state 81 - 900`s. Aimed for 300 New Hires last year and ended up with like 13. Pilot group went from about 2,500+ down to about 1,500 in quick fashion.

Too early for a puck FSA?

And go........ Do you really think the PSA pilots on here care?? At least I dont.


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I was at PSA corp yesterday and it looks like we are opening a base in DFW, not Chicago. We might also be now adding E175's to our program. Word is Envoy can't staff it.

In comes the scum to rub salt in the wound

Endeavor (Pinnacolaba) Let's see, off the top of my head, Pinnacle, MEM, MSP, DTW, ATL, JFK.... Mesaba, MSP, DTW, CVG, MEM, LGA ( CWA, RHI, years back) Colgan, IAH, EWR, IAD, BOS, CRW, ALB, and the pile of outstation bases I can't remember..... Today, MSP, DTW, JFK/LGA.... over 3000 pilots, now 1500, down to 110ish planes and still dropping... We feel your pain. At least we might have hit bottom finally here

Delta will be happy.
The worse the product becomes the more new customers Delta gets.

Since before the PSA (or envoy) pilot votes AAGs goal was for PSA to be the operator of the Bombardier products and envoy to be the operator of the Embraer products. That goal hasn't changed.

There is a target number of envoy pilots and that number is close to being hit. If attrition carries envoy below that number there is a group of pilots that could be brought in that would bolster the numbers.

He wasn't being serious. He is just a scumbag.

You must be high on crack. No way are we getting 175's at PSA. We cannot even staff what we have, much less the other 900's we are supposed to get. But you keep drinking that company kool aid.

Never was a part of those airlines so my history isnt that good, but they had bases in RHI and CWA? While I actually have family that live near RHI, not exactly the most populous area. I guess that is why they are not bases anymore. Hell, some of the eagles that formed the "American Eagle Airlines" had a base in MQT and FNT plus plenty others I'm sure.

Interesting analysis, and one that I agree with. Only thing I'm not 100% sold on is a merger. I assume you mean Envoy merging with Piedmont. But that would reduce the company's ability to whipsaw.

But I agree that there is a long term plan for Envoy which involves us being the E-175 operator. In fact, AA said as much in their last meeting with Envoy. But first there is a size they need to get us down to.

Ex comair buddy says couple of psa big wigs over at CVG flight safety checking out the E175 sim.

Do you hear that? It's like the sound of a collective boner being popped as PSA pukes salivate at the prospect of getting more airplanes from Envoy.

I don't work there. It probably means nothing so don't get all excited.

What if they consolidate all of the flying onto one certificate (PSA), and then keep all the ground handling in a separate company (Envoy). This would not facilitate the whipsaw, but may help them lower costs by running only 1 certificate versus 3. Who knows. Who cares.

just from curiosity, what group of pilots would be brought in to bolster?

Who do you think? Starts with a P, doesn't end in an A...and will soon be operating ERJ-145s for AA. Keep in mind the long term goal: Envoy as the Embraer operator for AA.