Definitely working right now, no doubt about that.

I just hope they have a longer term plan. They'll be good for the next year or two but they need something in place to continue that hiring, albeit at a slightly lesser clip, for a long while. As PSA becomes "just another regional" what is going to attract pilots?

Not going to happen. AAG couldn't reallocate all Envoy's feed in that time frame (next year). The ground operation is branching out to service other carriers and normal turnover there is moderate to high. The flight department is destined for consolidation with another carrier. Envoy will continue steady contraction though before that happens, which doesn't bode well for F/O upgrades and even possibly some very junior captain downgrades (not to include those in NYC who choose downgrade for commuting purposes). The AA flow will go through another hiatus next year as the remainder of AA furloughees return who plan to, but how many is a wild card. There are perhaps 900 who must make that decision and if even 1/3 choose to return, that could take 7-8 months at a steady 40/month.

I think the remainder of the 824 will cross the fence before consolidation (all gone by early 2017), but once consolidation occurs and seniority is them determined, any new flow will mean previous legacy Envoy pilots who had ball-parked their flow to AA based on the "protected pilot" agreement will then have that recalculated to include all pilots at the merged carrier if it is a wholly-owned. If Envoy flight is shrunk to whatever point and then divested to a non wholly-owned regional, all bets are off on flow to AA. At the time of consolidation, Envoy will be a two fleet carrier with no more than 1000 total pilots and likely less. I could see 40 E-175's and 40 E-145's by early-mid 2017 divided between DFW and ORD.

Another envoy thread hijacked by psa pilots. Wow! First they get envoy planes and now they are taking their own threads. What's next?

Good luck!

You truly are a D bag of the highest order.

YOU started the PSA conversation, and now post this just to stir the pot?

No one is taking your bait, you are worthless scum. I hope your GV(E145) job is going well.

Temporary. AAG's regional network in TOTAL is contracting, so what one carrier might be achieving now isn't a good overall litmus for the grand scheme. What's occurring now is simply a morphing of the model. Some expand while others contract, but the overall networks present size can not be supported in the future. It will steadily shrink. At some point, the musical chairs approach by pilots will not produce the desired results (quicker upgrade) and the music will stop for the most part. Where a pilot is when that happens depends on the risks they took and the timing. The future newbies will steadily dwindle as well. At some point in the near future, a different approach will be necessary for all three legacies regarding their regional networks.

I think mainline 100-seaters (Group 1 @ AA) will be tapped to provide a good portion of former regional flying in the future by all three legacies. Both United and AAG are in fact, exploring that as we speak. AA has only 20 E-190's (Group 1) and despite those being mostly allocated for specific east coast shuttle duty, that is too small a fleet for a 1000 aircraft airline. The regionals won't disappear but return to a much smaller component as it used to be.

I agree with your assessment.

Hey come on, for RJ Pilot standards, that was actually pretty clever. Not that I disagree with you. In fact I even fixed your post.

The only problem is that the "protected pilots" agreement it says that is for anyone on Envoy seniority list before 10-11-2011. They can recalculate the hires after that date, not before.

Other than that I think you're right.

I don't post much here, but keep abreast of what is going on at the regionals, envoy in particular . I spent 10.5 years at metro/ eagle prior to being hired at AA in 2000. I believe the group1 aircraft order at AA, and likely at DL and UAL is the most likely outcome of the shortage now happening at the regionals. Group 1 pay is less(obviously) than 2.. But is a living wage for FO, and the equivalent of mid level group 2 FO for CA. Will be the entry level seat at AA.
As a comparison... I made $21.60 after 6 months on a jetstream, 25 years ago.. Mesa starting pay..$22.00... Shameful... And THAT is the root cause of the shortage!!
Regards, and best of luck to us all

My understanding is that there is no order planned for group 1 aircraft and that Parker even said having the 20 190s is too small to justify the fleet.

You're assuming that this or any other contractual provisions in your current CBA will survive the consolidation. Don't bet on that. This among other things (like 18-year pay scales) are among the very reasons AAG is putting Envoy in the position it is now in and why it is positioning it for consolidation. They plan to eliminate the remaining uncompetitive aspects of Envoy. It would be counter productive to the acquiring entity to transfer Envoy pilots to a new entity that would acquire its assets and set up and "us and them" situation among the pilots whereby former Envoy have special rights not granted others (or grandfathered to unnecessary higher pay scales).

You can expect that if you choose to transfer at the time of acquisition of remaining Envoy assets, you'll have to accept employment under the acquirers pilots CBA and that includes their pay scales (18-year won't exist), the flow structure then in place or one negotiated to benefit all pilots based on seniority without favor and seniority to be arbitrated. You of course will have the option to decline those requirements and seek employment elsewhere. AAG isn't going to consolidate the dinosaur Envoy (AAG's belief of their competitive pilot labor costs and benefits relative to the industry) and retain all their albatrossian aspects or create a caste system within the consolidated carrier. Your MEC will agree to whatever terms are offered as the other option would be far worse for the pilots.

They will have no choice.

No current order.

Parker stated that the 190's will either grow or go away.

No order, but under evaluation. Might be a different aircraft depending on the deal and the 190's WOULD go away. They have some time, but not much to bust a move. Right now, they have enough burden introducing and adding new aircraft to AA, not to mention debt. I think a decision will have to be forthcoming by year's end.

From my understanding, from someone "in the know" (take that for what you will... All I know is this is what they said), AAG and UAL are both looking at "very large" orders of 100 - 150 seat jets to offset the anticipated shrinking of their regionals over the next 3 to 5 years. I know they said UAL is looking very closely at the new Bombardier C-Series, and that an "improved" E-190 may also be an option. They said AAG is likely looking at the same and I would imagine DAL too. I did ask if they knew anything about the MRJ and they said they "didn't know" but thought it would be doubtful mainline would buy anything with the name Mitsubishi attached to it.

Why is it beneath them?

Maybe it's because Mitsubishi has never built a safe nor reliable civil aircraft in its history.

C-Series! Bombardier needs orders. Perfect plane for American

AAG announced weeks ago they were looking at their E190 operation. It was either going to be discontinued, or greatly expanded.

What about the 195? When you say 190 do you also mean 195?

Okay folks, it's time to stop hiding behind the chainsaws
GET OUT NOW, GET IN THE RUNNING CAR
ENVOY BOOGIE MAN IS COMING FOR YOU!!
BWAAAAAAHHAAAAAAAA
https://youtu.be/Yrrw0wNLc2g

There is no legitimate argument for pay being too high at any regional airline in the entire country. If anything, there are many signs that management has gone to far in cutting pay and benefits at all the regionals, and are just now starting to come to the realization that there are no longer thousands of eager beavers just waiting to work for peanuts.
As far as your shareholders go, the airlines are making more money than any time in recent history. Oil prices are down well over 50% from June of last year, and yet the airlines haven't dropped their fuel surcharges, or any of their other ancillary fees. Oil experts have predicted a chance of oil dropping even further as oil storage in the U.S. is believed to be at or above 80% of capacity countrywide.
There was never a need for any of the concessions recently taken by several of the regional pilot groups, and in fact the current staffing issues at many regionals would actually support the need for vast improvements in pay and benefits if those regionals hope to continue to operate.

The legitimate argument is that they are contractors, NOT mainline. Mainline is making the record profits, not the contractors. The regionals have very little room to do much under this model, that is why it is up to us, the pilots, to force change of that model. At ExpressJet, the pilots did stand up in the face of the race to the bottom and voted against pilots subsidizing a broken model and an inadequate management team. This act forced Skywest (who owns us) to start looking for other ways to save money, namely by increasing efficiency and by appointing better managers. Our refusal to cave, got the old mgmt fired! So change can happen.

Ask the envoy pilot group how did the "standing up for the industry" worked for them.

Goodluck!

God, you're so annoying. Quit acting like you left envoy. You're not fooling anyone.

The Union mentioned a few days ago that there will NOT be any retention bonuses because they are overstaffed for the final fleet count number over the next 18 months.

Agreed. The OP was still misleading by not bringing up the other half of the paragraph stating that Pedro was working on an FO bonus. That bonus has been shot down. Doesn't change that he was working on it.

It is over for envoy I fear. People like Jerry Glass and Doug Parker are soul less in their endeavor to ruin young peoples careers by keeping them in place at a failing airline, until they can shut the place down on their schedule. Actions such as these are truly all that is wrong with our world. I feel horrible for my FOs and hope they see the writing on the wall: Shrink to shutdown or get out now.

If I were at Envoy I'd already be one foot out the door. Several airlines are growing and hiring, and lots of 135/91 flight departments are as well. I wish you all the best and I hope everyone lands on their feet and gets where they want to be.

But you forgot about the MU2.....errr... Uhhhh...never mind.

Took it long enough to get here!

Holly thread revival Batman!