Envoy Aircraft Assignments
 

Hello,

New to the forums and was wondering if anyone could shed some light on what aircraft the new hires at Envoy are being assigned. Also, which aircraft would facilitate the earliest transfer to DFW. Thanks for the help.

Most are getting the EMJ140(5). But if you want to get to Dallas avoid the CRJ.

Everyone in the last few months has been getting ORD as a base. Assignments have been for both CRJ and E145.

Doesn't really matter which plane. You are going to have to bid for a vacancy or get displaced to move from an assigned base.

DFW assignments might get E175 as a new hire sooner or later I suspect.

Good news is the two aircraft that are in DFW are the 145 and soon to be 175. If for some reason you get the CRJ ( and I dont think anyone got the CRJ that didnt pick it), eventually you will be displaced off of it and can displace to 145 and thus be back in DFW. While that does mean 2 long terms, they are in DFW and any thing imo is worth being in base.

Envoy Aircraft Assignments
 

How many 140(45) are currently in the fleet. Done transferring to other carriers yet? Thanks!

The Embraer 175 is suppose to go into service in February, I would think that they would start offering that to new hires soon so as to get them on the line in time. Maybe late November, early December classes.

I would say most likely late December, early January.

Nice to see a thread with interest in ENY that isn't negative.

Good luck on your airline choices, folks.

How many is Envoy interviewing and hiring each month?

New hires could be starting on the 175 sooner than originally planned. We've only had 1 bid for the 175 and it went very senior on the FO side. A month later, a CA vacancy was run, and many of those senior 175 FO (who hadn't gone to training) were awarded CA. They haven't run a bid to replace those 175 FO's and these spots could go to new hires.

This is all subject to change, and I would not recommend choosing an airline based off the type of aircraft you will be flying. But if they fill the 175 FO seats with new hires, it could be a nice QOL boost for the guys just starting out.

Interviewing is one thing, warm bodies in class is another. Actually I prefer warm bodies on the line and still there 1 year late.

Either way, August supposedly we had 28 new hires. Havent had those numbers since pre BK in 2011.

That is what I was thinking. Plus I am guessing, it takes about 2 1/2 months to go from Indoc through IOE. I am sure they would rather send a new hire home for a few weeks rather than not having enough qualified pilots which is why I would guess they would start them by early December. I guess we won't know until they actually get offered in class.

I echo the advice though, in an industry ruled by seniority, getting on as soon as possible is wiser than holding out for a certain aircraft. Years later when you are bidding a CA spot or a Flowthrough class, you are not going to care what you flew as a newhire. Especially if the news about the flow and returning block hours creates a wave of newhires, you further one is on the front side of that wave the better their QOL, upgrade and flow prospects will be.

There are 7 guys in a CRJ 700 class that just finished systems.

Yeah I'd say that's a pretty significant amount. Sounds like they are doing a decent job recruiting.

Wholly owned with a flow is the way to go now. Shinny jets and fast upgrade in a private/publicly held company is so very uncertain right now.

True. Although Envoy has the added benefit of also having "shiny jets". Or soon to have them in a couple of months I should say.

I would think that as the regionals shrink due to the shortage of pilots, will Parker invest in the wholly owned over a contractor. Why would they put money into RAH, Mesa, Xjet, SKW while letting their own assets sit idle? I would expect AAG to continue to offer more incentives for their wholly owned companies while refusing to pay more at the contracted carriers.

Hahah that's funny!
So what's the current upgrade an ENY?

LOL! You mad?

Hate all you want...makes no difference to us.

About 8 years. Should that matter to a new-hire? If so, please explain to me how...I'm dying to hear your rationalization!

Only an idiot would ask this question. A smart pilot would ask what will be envoy's upgrade time in one, two, or three years from now. You know, in 1999 - 2001 many pilots were hired when Am Eagle had upgrade times of two years, many of those new hires spent almost a decade in the right seat. What was PSA's upgrade time before they doubled in size? More importantly, now that they are full of low time Captains unable to compete for mainline jobs and FOs who don't even have enough flight time to upgrade, what will their upgrade time be as the entire airline stagnates?

Many a pilot have been disappointed going to places like RAH or PSA that have current low upgrade times only to realize they have missed the wave. In addition to the announcement that a third of our captains will be leaving for AA next year (in addition to normal attrition), they are returning 12,000 block hours back to envoy in the coming months. That represents an almost 50% growth (return) in flying, combined with 30% - 40% of captains leaving, that adds up to a lot of opportunity for new hires today. A smart pilot flies ahead of the aircraft.

Not mad at all, trust me I'm an eagle allie, just seem like this thread was painting a pretty rosey picture over there. Wanted to bring you guys back to reality

What's the fleet size projection in one, two, three years?
If the upgrade time in three years is three years its still a 6 year upgrade.

Really? How easy is to answer 8yrs to upgrade and 16 years to flow?

But base on the 12,000 block hours "back" to envoy, well, pray for hiring to increase otherwise the flow will slowdown or stop after the 824's are gone.

Aren't they looking to hire 400 pilots for next yr? Funny how ya'lls union were the ones that scared most of FO's to bail in an exodus mode to other AAG regionals. It really bit them in their arse. In Cuj we trust!


Good Luck!

No union stooge nor anyone here can answer that.


Good Luck!

Yeah, exactly. Things are going a little too well at a company you don't work for and you can't handle it. Admitting you have a problem is the first step towards recovery. Congratulations.

Why don't you worry more about Air Wisconsin getting iPads or a contract, whatever the hell is going on over there. I know it must be tough realizing that working for a non-wholly owned is only going to get you as far as an LCC...if you're lucky. That's the REAL reality you need to worry about. Not the fantasy you have in your head that sees other airlines fail so that maybe, just maybe yours succeeds.

RJ Pilot, is that you?

Mind. Blown.

Yes, that would be true if we had hired an evenly distributed number of pilots each and every month, which is not the case, at any airline, ever. We have very few pilots hired between late 2008 and 2010 and then again from early 2012 to now. A pilot hired today could easily be upgrading or flow just a few month after a pilot hired years ago due to these gaps.

But since you asked, here are some ruff numbers:

We just had a vacancy putting our most junior CA at 10/2007 -- 8 years

Next year they have conservatively announced they will upgrade 220 CAs. That will make the most junior CA 12 month from now a July 2010 new hire. And that is assuming no other attrition or growth. Considering these two factors, I would guess that in 12 months from now, we will have a October 2010 new hire. In ones years, time the upgrade will drop from 8 years to 6 years.

When you look at AA retirements, they are going to be retiring 600 - 800 a year for the foreseeable future. That means in addition to the 300 - 400 FTs next year, there will be another 300 - 400 in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 etc etc. Even if envoy shrinks, there will be somewhere around 250-300 upgrade in 2017. That would make the most junior CA two years from now a July to October 2011 new hire. Still steady at 6 years due to the large hiring during late 2010 to late 2011.

But this is where the magic happens. There was not much hiring after 2011. As AA continues to hire and guys flow over to AA, there will be another 250 (conservative estimate) flowing to AA in 2018. That is another 250 upgrades. The most junior CA an early 2014 new hire. 4 year upgrade.

There are only 100 pilots junior to a May 2014 on our seniority list today. That means that a pilot hired today would upgrade in early 2019. And these are conservative numbers. We still have Captains/FOs getting hired by United, Delta, JetBlue, Spirit, Virgin America. That is where Ric Wilson's 2.5 year upgrade projections come from. While I agree his projects are on the low side, I do think that a new hire today can expect to upgrade between 2.5 to 3.5 years from today and flow to AA in a 6 to 7 year time frame.

These numbers also don't take into consideration that all of Parker's Lowest Bidder Contract Regionals are not able to staff their ASAs and flying is returning to envoy. A 50% increase in block flying done today is coming in the next few month. More Flying + Senior Flowing CAs + Normal experienced CA/FO attrition = a good time to get in on the front side of the wave at envoy.

Fleet projections have only been going up as RAH and Mesa have been unable to staff their flying or run on time. Those fleet projections will only be going up as these companies find it harder to staff their flying. Or someone could go to RAH while they figure out their CBA, bankruptcy and what will happen when they cannot staff their obligations to the mainlines. Or someone could go to PSA who have a large number of low time CAs that will be flying there for years before they are competitive for the Majors. Not to mention their low time FO that still don't qualify for upgrade, then when they do upgrade, they will take years to get the experience to be competitive for mainline jobs. Currently competitive hiring experience at United is 7,000 TT/4,000 PIC. How long will a 2,000 hour PSA new hire take to get that kind of experience at 700 hours a year? Mesa isn't much better.

On top of all that, a new hire today doesn't have to wait around for the flow. They can still apply at United, Delta or whoever and take other opportunities as they come along. I would guess though, as it becomes harder and harder to staff their regional flying, AA will other greater incentives such as increase flow to attract new hires to it's regionals.

A lot is going to be happening in the industry during the next decade. Many assumptions and variables. To me, it seems safe to file a route well clear of the weather and look for direct to your destination if you can rather than risking your career to picking through the buildups. You will probably make it through eventually either way but life really sucks when you are stuck in a sucker hole.

For a new hire today it should be around 2.5 years according to the company projections. So far their flow through is working better than agreed the past several years.

Retirements in that amount won't happen until 2020 at least. Sure, the 67 age retirement will trump all that...

You are a weak salesman.


Good Luck!

Come on dude.... Have some dignity.


Good Luck!

Thank you all for your responses. I hope to get the opportunity to fly with you.

Well, at least it made it 18 posts before devolving into sarcasm and baiting.

What a sickening thread. Three complete pages of Envoy kumbaya. You guys have all drank too much from the company water cooler and followed it up by funneling the ALPA juice.

Envoy blows. It's a regional. A 10 year CA is making $87/hour. With your suck a** schedules, you can't do much better than guarantee.

The flow is only going to work until no new hires come in on the bottom. 28 bodies in August is exception rather than a rule. Some of those were more lateral jumpers from Republic. They ain't gonna flow the company outta business.

Ah, nothing like a virgin's first post.

Oh, and nice screen name. Couldn't come up with something more original?

You purposely created a similar name with another member just to post this?
If you don't agree with their opinion just argue with points and facts!

Good post. Agreed.

It's amazing how people can't see past "current" upgrade and flow times, because they are COMPLETELY irrelevant to what a new hire will experience. When I was hired projections were 3-4 years, went to 10+ With age 65, still had flowbacks, and losing Aircraft plus other problems, then it went back down to as low as 6. We had years without hardly any hiring now since later in 08, which will shorten a newhires timeframe significantly when those big gaps are jumped again, new hires aren't going through the lost decade either and have NEVER seen movement off the top/middle as high as 300-400+ A YEAR!!

Upgrade was 10 years right before my upgrade.. But there was such a gap in hiring over the years (similar to what a new hire will experience) that my upgrade time jumped all the way down to around 6.5yrs just due to hiring gaps and getting here on the FRONT end of an 800 pilot hiring wave, even with the bankruptcy and losing tons of aircraft. The guys on the back end of that hiring wave are the ones suffering more back at around 8yrs again.. That is what happens when you get hired behing 600-700 people in a year period. That is a TON of people to upgrade ahead of you, especially when things start to slow, and what these other upgrade mill carriers will be dealing with shortly. The suckers going there still now just don't realize it yet.

There is NO way for a new hire to have an 8 year upgrade here (barring another major disaster) if we continue to lose 400+ pilots a year due to flow and outside attrition. (Which we are doing. Easily) Even with more shrinkage.. And as the 175's start coming in the shrinkage is coming to a stop. We have only 2030 pilots, almost a couple hundred of them are inactive, working in training center, management, mil leave or on sick leave. Junior CA award today is #1206 out of 2030 pilots. Upgrades stay around 60% on the seniority list. Do the simple math. 2030 - 400+/yr attrition ahead of you leaving. How many years until you hit the 60% mark to upgrade? Even estimating if we shrink more and junior CA goes from current #1206 down to #900 or so in a couple years..

I bet attrition next year is closer to 500 anyway with the amount of hiring everywhere. We have Higher attrition than any other regional on the planet right now. 300ish flowing, handful of retirements, and 180 or so junior CA and FO's to other LCC and Majors is EASILY doable next year, then the always reliable junior FO upgrade chasers that will leave on top of that. That is 25% of our pilots gone in just 1 yr.

Just some perspective. At my first regional, the current upgrade time at my date of hire was about 5-6 years. I upgraded in 14 months. Things change...

I'm over 100k for the year already, with several months to go. We have transition pay and by trading low time trips, or adding OT to the front or back, I do well.