Yes.

Saturday's and Sunday's are off until sim. Then it varies.

Gracias amigo

Well, just so you are clear you do not qualify for the retention bonus. I think the schedule is like 8-5 with a lunch break in between. Then things get a bit more random with the sim.

Envoy is no better than Mesa these days. A total sh*t hole with management in open war against the pilot group. Stay away. Do not believe the lies. We still have eight-year FOs and that will not be changing any time soon.

You are twisting the facts. The upgrade is coming down quickly. In fact, we just announced 87 new upgrades last week. As the flow continues, you'll see more upgrades in the future. You can expect a person hired today to flow to AA in just under 6 years.

It's apparent that you have an axe to grind with Envoy and aren't objective. There are a few others on this board that like you, seem to have as their life's mission, smearing Envoy and Envoy management while cooking up false facts.

I would suggest talking to some people who really work at Envoy if you really want the truth.

I am "expecting" to make $280,000 this year. Starting in May of 2015 I alone announced my expectations for my income to double based solely off my calculations. Does this sound believe able to you?

Like you ?

LOL ! :rolleyes:

The facts are that nothing has changed there regarding upgrade/flow since last year. Approximately 205 upgrades are forecast that like the weather can change and the Letter T situation at AA being an unknown variable means no concrete number of flows can be guesstimated for 2016, let along beyond a half decade out. A salesman may take some time off, but when they return, they're goal is usually still sales.

At most, yours is an apples to oranges comparison. And, it makes no sense. We are talking about a contractual flow that's underway and with the numbers projected, the math works.

Here's a basic math lesson for you. Envoy currently has roughly 2000 pilots. If 360 flow per year, that's about a 5 1/2 year upgrade. We already know that the top 200 or so pilots are not flowing. Let's just say that all 2000 on the list are going to flow. 2000 / 360 = 5.5.

There's your math. Got anything that's useful you'd like to discuss now?

I figured the axe grinder would make an appearance here. For those who aren't familiar, eaglefly doesn't even work here! So, if you want to take advice from someone who claims to know all of the internal workings of Envoy that doesn't even work at the company. Well, I'll let you be the judge of his foolish statement above.

Oh, gee...........I'm sorry. Please correct my post above with factual information. I've never made the claim you attribute to me above, so by all means explain to all why my assertions are invalid with more then irrelevant distraction.

I really work at Envoy. There are two separate issues facing Envoy right now.

1. Rampant stagnation and contraction caused by management.
2. Management has completely rewritten several aspects of our contract. If you look back in recent post you will see what our grievances are against the company.

The ONLY way the first problem is going to get better is if we can hire people. With the current pay we have that's not going to happen. The retention bonus doesn't help with the first problem. The 121 poaching effort might attract Republic pilots but that's it. So the only way I'll get off reserve if we hire more pilots. I don't see that happening without significant pay raises or bonuses for all pilots.

Problem two isn't going away without new management.

These "false facts" are actually true.

Eaglefly and cr700. They two most annoying posters on here are now at it. You both have very slanted points of views.

Perhaps there is a "secret plan" that is unknown to most except those "in the know", ostensibly like 700 ? Even if there was, it would only likely impact the first problem you describe as the second one I agree will never change without new management. Even with that, personally, I don't think another 40 shiny new planes and a few more bucks in the pocket will cause a stampede to Envoy, let alone veiled claims of "something in the works". That's sucker bait and the worst fact of all is that the herd is so thinned out now, even the hunters are looking for more plentiful game. :cool:

OK, perhaps you're right. I withdraw my slanted agreement with your post above. ;)

Here we go again.

At least there were a few useful posts before degenerating.

5 1/2 year upgrade?

Whenever I see cr700 posting here, I have to go grab my popcorn before viewing. Thanks for giving me plenty to laugh about. Here is an idea. Why don't you actually get upgrades and flow down to 2.5/5.5 and then come back here. Until then, I don't really care about your "projections."

Yup, I've been reading this thread on and off for many days and all was peaceful until...........yup, you guessed it, the "sales" started back up again. You'd think at least some new bait would have been included, but it was essentially the same old pitch using the same old inaccuracies by the same old person with the same old motive.

All I did was once again disagree with and question that and when attacked with irrelevancy (again :cool:), requested clarification. Apparently, I am a "degenerate" for doing so. What'ya gonne do ? :rolleyes:

I'd love to discuss this with a rational person that doesn't feel compelled to lie and present half truths to attract a few extra new guys. We aren't flowing 360 a year. You keep using that number but we haven't done it in the past and we won't do it this year regardless of what you think or Ric "expects". There will be no street hires or flows for May, June and July. After flowing 120 in the first 4 months that gets us to flowing around 300 if they have classes in Dec which they haven't had the previous two years so we may end up flowing 270 in 2016. Math lesson: that's 90 less than the number you keep using. We need to upgrade 36 pilots a month for the next 20 months for ric's expectations to work out. We need to flow a minimum of 27 a month, uninterrupted(don't laugh) for the next 56 months straight for his calculations to work. Call us cynical if you must but we've been down this road before.

Dics, lap buddy doesn't respond to facts!!

Here's a question for an Envoy pilot "in the know":

In the interest of ferreting out facts vs. claims, Envoy's new ad on this forum (at right) states that among other things, "......with Envoy GUARANTEED to make up HALF of all American Airlines new-hire classes." Has that "guarantee" been met so far this year and if not, how can that be a "guarantee" and can those who make guarantees but don't live up to them be trusted with any information they give out ?

It's a valid question and I'm sure some here would like to know.

I'll bet I've been at this airline, through various names, longer than you big guy.
The people "smearing" you are talking factual while all you can do is throw up "projections" and "expectations" and try to sucker in new hires by glossing them over as "factual", while history has proven differently. The facts are day to day life at envoy is much much worse than most regionals.

Opinion time: You and the rest of management are the worst bunch of cronies I have seen at this airline - ever. That is saying a lot given the scum that has come through here over the years. You are stupid, selfish, and immoral and have no issue lying to people about the certainty of their future. I know people without conscience, such as yourself, can't see this, but these are people's lives you are messing with. May you rot in eternal hell some day.

Eaglefly the answer is NO never been made up.

Pilot crusader I say BRAVO

That's a good question eaglefly. A culture change was needed at AMR. DP assured multiple work groups that it would be a top priority if a merger were to occur. The work groups bought in and now years later APA is asking where is the culture change and recently DP has challenged AAG's middle management to step up, fall in line or get with the program depending on how you interpret his comments. AAG responded to APA's letter by saying in essence we have failed to timely correct the culture issue. So here we are back to the trust issue. DP says there needs to be a culture change, Ric says new hires will upgrade/flow in 2.5/5.5 but these issues seem all but dead in the water. Until management buys into a culture change it won't happen. This includes marketing slogans including words like "guaranteed" and "expecting". At a minimum employees need to be able to trust their leadership.

Anyways...here are a couple of videos about Envoy put out by American Airlines.

The first, AA Vice President of flight Captain Kimball:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQExnJaqJmM

Next, Robert Isom COO of American:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=463j...?v=463jmaVssxU

A bit harsh don't you think??

Sounds like a fluff piece with a bunch of smoke being blown up our collective you know what's.

Just like you and CR700 seem to do here frequently.

Not at all. These guys are evil incarnate. Zero conscience or feel for fellow human beings.

Both of these video's presenters state half of future AA pilots will come from their wholly-owned carriers (plural), whereas Envoy's ad says Envoy pilots alone will not only capture half the slots, but more critically half of EVERY new-hire class. Those two claims are significantly different. The only error I see in representation in these videos is the statement that the Envoy fleet is "growing" leading to fast upgrades. It's my understanding that Envoy management is representing a "stable" fleet that they don't expect to shrink, at least in the near future, so there does appear to be some creative representation in that respect as upgrades there will most likely remain tepid because it's unlikely Envoy will be able to bring enough pilots in over the next year or two to remain its current size.

Why stop at 360 per year? Why not tell them 500 or 720? Since we're just making up unrealistic numbers.

Perhaps, but he's not alone feeling that way. Why is that?

No, it was pretty spot on.

Since when do new hires flow at a rate of 360/year?

They aren't in the 824 or protected pilot group. Their flow is reduced to quite a bit less. So That math is pretty f-d up. I seriously doubt even in the 824 or protected group we ever see 360/year anyway. Not even close this year with recalls.

I know this. You know this. The cheesenuts lying their tails off know this.

Unfortunately they hope to dupe some unsuspecting potential new hire with their blatant lies.

At least used car salesmen are just selling you a lemon. These guys are selling people a lifetime of lemons(lies).

It's painfully obvious they are the same person trolling behind different screen names!

I always shake my head in disbelief when people say this. By the time that short upgrade happens it's too late for anybody new. Ask the PSA guys hired in the past year how their upgrade is looking...or Mesa. Projections and coming to your own educated conclusions on the health and future of an airline are the only things a sensible person needs to do to decide on which company to choose.

You may not care about "projections" but if you're a new hire looking for where to begin your career, you probably should.

That being said, while we certainly have our share of problems over here, if I were young and didn't mind slugging it out at the regionals for a few years...I would choose envoy. Top knotch training by VERY experienced and knowledgable pilots, a financially healthy company, and a path to the largest airline in the world...seems like a no-brainer to me. I came here nearly a decade ago for the first two reasons and am sure glad I stayed around for the third.

....and you know this how ?

Razor sharp observation and intuition ?

Is it no wonder so many chumps are flying airliners these days ?

They think they have it all figured out right up until the instant they take a two-by-four between the eyes and then cry to the heavens of why they never saw it coming. You'll go far. :cool:

Dude, what the heck happened to you? Several months ago you were on here parroting the same old lines that CR700, Skyvector and others were. You seemed to have done a 180 on how you feel about Envoy. I think you were even in eaglefly's "Jackals Club" as well.

Well, just went to AA Hiring briefing at the WAI convention.

All they said (AA Pilots, one USAir & one AA), classes are 50% flow from envoy, CFI Cadet Program from Envoy. Go to envoyair.com...

No mention of PSA and PDT, only once they mentioned (nothing relevant). PDT and PSA booth where nowhere close AA. Envoy was by the side of AA.

Seems to me the AAG is putting a lot
of effort to replace the flow guys and hiring as much as they can. Talked to the recruiters and they told me this event has the best turn over in a long time.

Meanwhile RAH, Commuteair and Silver booth where empty. Endevour had some guys around. PSA and PDT way back out of sight with some people around.

Yeah? And you are management. So what's the difference? I still don't trust you nor any of your office buddies. How about you stop violating our contract first, then we can MAYBE start believing you.