Envoy questions
 

Last time i posted this within an envoy thread and got no replies so sorry for starting a new one but I would like these questions answered.


Alright, SO what is the current length of time one could expect to be on reserve?

What are the call out times? short and long if you have it.

Is the 2.5 year upgrade and 6 year flow really going to be a reality.( and yes I have read this is expected to happen with the upcoming flows leaving.)

Any other information I might be want to hear about?

I know piedmont you are able to put your inlaw in your travel benefits if you only have one parent is that the same at envoy. ex father passed would like to add mother in law

Thanks for the responses

Currently, forever (4+ years) on reserve

2 hour call out, except NY but that is closing in about a month. No long call reserve at envoy, per Ric Wilson and company who currently refuse to negotiate a new reserve section of the contract to bring it in line with FAR117. Instead they make up their own rules to impose on reserves, and change them on a whim.

The 2.5/6 could happen. That is, if they don't slow down flow AND they can somehow find a lot of new hires. Right now they are only banking on the flow to attract new hires and nothing else. Well, there is a miniscule new hire bonus, but it is no better than every other airline. They refuse to provide a monetary incentive, and rather rely on a promise that could happen but also might not.

Travel benefits are the same for all three wholly owned airlines, which is essentially the mainline travel policy.

Current length of time on reserve is inexcusable and otherwise what BL says.

The 2.5 and 6 is still being pushed by the company. While the vast majority of us raise the BS flag regarding the feasibility of those numbers, it is technically possible - and remember, they only need one flow selection group to hit that mark for it to be true. They could be bracketed by 3 year upgrades and 7 year flows. Currently ENY is planning on hiring 400 next year. If they can achieve this goal it's going to be good to be a new hire at ENY. Problem being, like everyone knows, there's a shortage of hireable pilots, so unless there's a merger (bad for stagnation) or another carrier fails and dumps pilots on the market it's going to be tough to pull pilots in.

We're overstaffed, so pilots flowing off the top should result in better schedules and higher time lines for everyone.

Hey hey last time Ric said 2.5 and 5.5 to AA...

Probably weren't answered because Envoy is in a very dynamic state of change. It's like asking PDT their future BEFORE they got the order to double their fleet with new jets.

Tough question because it can ba answered two ways. Do you want the current time on reserve, or the time a new hire should be on reserve?
Reserve is currently 4 years. However, FO's can not currently bid jet to jet so new hires will be getting the E175 shortly and it is a growing fleet type so time on reserve will be very short. Likewise, the expected time to upgrade is dropping rapidly and if their plans are accurate then if you are upgrading in roughly 2.5 years your time on reserve should be short.

The entire reserve rules section is being rewritten currently, and with the staffing crunch hitting all the other carriers there is little interest in anything other than an industry leading RSV program. Other than that I think most would rather take it to the arbitrator since ALPA has rarely lost grievances over seniority violations.

Their projections are based on only needing 15 new hires a month. Last month we did 28, and this month we're doing 13. 2.5 / 6 are just math problems, and if you take current numbers and extrapolate them, their numbers work. I'd expect some variation here and there; but they are banking on AA flow creating the drive to keep their regionals staffed without having to significantly raise pay. To do that it has to actually work. Thus far to date this year their numbers show that close to 70% of all AA new hires came from Envoy. In the last 3 years we sent 1/4 of our pilots to AA, and that was before the retirements really began to pick up which happens this year. Next year they are projecting at least 300 will flow to AA from Envoy. That is expected to continue.

It's a good time to be an ENY or PDT pilot.

Right now I'd put PDT and ENY on your short list. My only concern at PDT would be the fleet type. I'm not a PDT guy, but I wouldn't be so excited about getting jets that everybody else is trying to park. The other guys are all parking them for a reason.

envoy reserve times are only so high today because we have had nothing but contraction and stagnation for the last 4 years. We are overstaffed in preparation for the Embraer 175 Training Bubble and due to the fact that AAG planned on us being a much smaller company than we are. Since we have pilots and PSA, Mesa, TSA and RAH cannot hire enough pilots to fulfill their unrealistic air service agreements. envoy is getting a lot of those flight hours back.

The next four years will be a vastly different environment than the last four years have been. envoy is the ONLY company that can guarantee that about 1/3 of their Captains will be leaving next year for a Major Airline. This will be in addition to those who are getting hired via the traditional interview route. NO regional airline can guarantee how many they will hire. Those two variables will greatly impact the amount of time a new hire will spend on reserve and in the right seat. Guys like Bob Loblaw, who do not even work at envoy anymore love to question the flow but there has not been even one month that AA has hired on the AA side of the Us Air merger that they haven't flowed guys over. We are now flowing to both the AA and Us Air operations. We are currently exceeding the 50% required amount of the flow. The flow is THE recruiting tool of choice for AAG, they will not stop the flow. Given the current environment of limited new hire pilots, I think the likelihood of a non wholly owned airline going into bankruptcy is greater than the flow stopping at envoy.

Again, to reiterate, the only airline that can guarantee that 300 of its Captains will be leaving next year is envoy and that is half of the factor in determining how long a new hire will sit on reserve. In fact the last time that envoy hired as many pilots as they are projecting for next year, the reserve time was only a few months. No one can say whether or not they will meet those projections, only time will tell.

You will not find many regional airlines with a long call reserve. A 2 hour call out is pretty standard. We do have a pretty well regimented call out process and it is very easy to track your current "probability" of getting called and plan your commute accordingly. Occasionally guys have been burned for doing this but about 95% of the time you are successful and you won't get in trouble for the other 5%. We currently do not have Preferential Bidding for line holders and we have a proffering system for the reserve pilots which both mean a greatly improved QOL and paycheck. Something that many of the other regionals do not offer. My friends over at RAH consistently lose 5 - 10 hours of pay a month due to their lack of cancellation pay.

I had a similar situation with my family travel benefits. Foremost, if travel benefits are important to you. NO regional has better travel benefits than envoy, PDT or PSA. I was once told that I can have one "FATHER" and one "MOTHER" on my travel benefits and they really don't care if they are biological or not. Just that once that person is chosen, its there for life. I would think that in the current LGBT Politically Current Culture, no one would question the "fact" that you have two mothers.

It isn't so much the pilots not wanting a rewrite, as the company unwilling to do so. Performance numbers have been high since they began making up their own reserve policies (but I think it's more due to being over staffed) and as such, are not willing to change that since they don't really care how we feel about anything. The arbitration process might work in our favor (or might not [turnbacks]) but it will be YEARS before it is resolved there [LTFO].



The only way it works is with new hires, which currently, there aren't many out there to hire. Ric said he wants 400 in just over a year. That's nearly double "only needing 15 new hires a month". Also, despite having a temporary slow down, we are still losing aircraft. I'm glad they are flowing more than the minimum, but that is only happening now due being over staffed and them wanting the high priced pilots off the payroll. I wouldn't expect it to last much past the 824, as we hit their staffing goal and pilots on the new pay cap.

Aren't you sending 1 e145 to Xjet for every E175 you get to DFW? So how is it a new hire wil have a short time on reserve, if you are only changing a fleet type? My friend just spent the last 4 years on reserve, and just now got a line this month. I'll believe it when I see it.

That is true of every regional airline. They all depend on new hires to facilitate movement. At least envoy can guarantee movement off the top. How many low time PSA Captains do you think will be leaving PSA in the near future?


Got any stock advice as well? Maybe some medical advice? AAG has in, no uncertain terms, stated that they will use the flow as their primary recruitment incentive. I'm sorry if I put more confidence in a Major Airline CEO who has the operational control to make the flow happen saying that it is the means he will use to attract pilots to his regionals over some disgruntled regional airline FO.

That is the best way to make sure that you are on the back side of the wave.

I didn't say they would stop the flow, that would be counter productive to their only recruiting tool. I said they will not continue to go above what they have to. Now, back to your used car sales pitch...

Yes. People hired now will reap the greatest benefit.

Just like stocks, if you wait until everyone's talking about it, it will be too late and the vast majority of the gains are behind you.

Uh yeah, my bad, that isn't what you said at all. :confused: Oh, and please stop saying "we". We all know you don't work here.


Better to be a Used Car Salesman than the mop boy at the PSA wh0re house.

A partial quote out of context doesn't paint the full picture. Let me help you with what it is I do not expect to last, taken from the previous sentence in that paragraph, "I'm glad they are flowing more than the minimum..."

As far as you thinking I'm a PSA Wh0re goes, you couldn't be more wrong. Just because I refuse to whitewash the company propaganda like a good little management stooge doesn't mean I do not work for the airline formerly known as Eagle.

You don't think they know that we've won almost EVERY seniority based grievance over the past 20+ years? They want it resolved more than you think; they just have a better poker face.

What he wants, and what is needed to make 2.5/6 a reality are not the same. Their projections are based upon 15 a month. More is gravy.
You're also assuming the only place to obtain pilots is from the limited supply comming from the colleges and universities.

The retirements go up each year. They can easily go back to only 50% and we are still sending 300+ to AA each year.

Whats going to happen to the flow, upgrades,reserve if envoy can't hire 300 pilots next yr? ALPA and specifically YOU should've kept your traps shut last yr when your agenda about helping pilots out from envoy backfired.

Results: 50+ in attrition a month that really contributed to;
Less flying.
Base closures
More pilots on reserve
Are you regretting it now?

Good Luck!

Thanks for the info so far
 

Thank you for the replies thus far


You say reserve is currently 4 years. If I were to get the 175 could that lesson the time on reserve or what would be the way to do that?

How many hours does the average reservist pick up?

What is the junior base right now?

Is CVG really getting announced and will that go junior or senior?(guessing junior)

Once hired how long til jumpseat privileges start? after IOE?





Anyone interview lately have an idea what to expect?


I feel like there is plenty I'm leaving out still new to the game feel me in.

Reserve time depends on what base and aircraft you are in. There are guys at envoy with 2 years of seniority holding a line on the CRJ in ORD.

They are hiring both into the CRJ and 145. if the amount of new hires stays consistent on the CRJ guys in class right now could sit reserve less than a year. There is a lot more hiring on the 145 but it is a larger fleet. If you do get the 175 reserve time could be even less if they put a lot of new hires in it. Reserve times are ever changing.

Reserve guys can do anywhere between 30 and 80 hours. Looking at the reserve list you can see both extremes. Some guys that live in base don't want to fly and some guys would rather just commute in and do one leg to the hotel. Some like to fly a lot.

You can get DFW or ORD out of training.

No CVG base. Might be another airline you are thinking about.

AA non-rev benefits I think are first day. Jumpseat I believe is the same. I got the jumpseat during a break during training.

Interview is three parts. Technical, sim, and HR. Tech is basic IFR and Jep knowledge. Sim is easy. VOR tracking, a hold, and an approach or two. The HR is like any other HR.

I keep reading this statement that FOs can't bid the E175. I thought displaced FOs can bid the 175. With the closing of MIA and NY that makes a lot of FOs able to bid the 175. Now, is it just being displaced out of equipment? Or can a MIA EMJ FO displaced to ORD EMJ FO also bid the 175?

Displacements are done. Current FOs cannot bid the E-175. Also about 3-4 Sr E-175 FOs got CA seat in the last bid, they never went to training.

Unless there's a displacement bid in the works (very unlikely), then if someone Proffer to Displace to the E-175 it gets seat locked. I don't think any FO close to upgrade wants to be seat locked, same goes for CAs waiting to flow. I think the 175 will go Jr in both seats.

You cannot preference bid jet to jet in the same seat - in example: the 175 is DFW only right now. You're an FO on the 175. Your girlfriend dumps you and you're out of the apartment and you want to move back to ORD where you are from.

You cannot bid ORD/FO/E145 if a vacancy bid opens for that. You're stuck in DFW/FO/175 until: A) A 175 base opens in ORD and you are able to get a bid award for that base, B) A vacancy bid opens in which you are able to upgrade to ORD equipment, or C) You are displaced and able to hold ORD equipment as a displacement preference.

The displacement into the 175 with our current situation was odd. There were FO's that bid the 175 as new equipment and there were FO's that bid it as a displacement pref. I think there were instances where a junior FO got the 175 ahead of a senior FO due to the way the displacement and pref bids are run, but someone with better knowledge of how that all shook out will have to explain it.

being unable to bid the 175 is just for current individuals on property is that correct?

will ORD be the 175 base or both?

what is out of DFW right now?
What are currently being awarded for new hires so on?

Will ORD be a 175 base? I doubt it. Republic operates some 40 175s out of ORD.

DFW currently is the 145 and soon to be 175. With the CRJs sticking around longer, will we see a DFW CRJ base? Dunno.

Ask cujo why they altered the flow. My sources are telling me that they have added those 238 guys with numbers to the flow list now. Can someone verify this?

So from 16yr to flow, it will jump to 25yrs plus.

Good Luck!

Does anyone have insight on when (and if) the 175 will be offered to new hires?


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With the way out contract is written, where FO's cannot bid jet-to-jet, I would guess new-hires should have it offered to them by winter time. Could be sooner or could be later, it's hard to tell. But like I said, with the way our contract is written, the 175 will go to new-hires at some point.

Any updates to the training regime since the last post? (Sept)
How long, hotels used, double or single occupancy.
Indoc?, sims??
Home study?
Where is everybody being assigned? 145, 175, CRJ, DFW, ORD??
Looking for current info if anybody has it?? PM me if you would like.

Training is about two months. Currently the hotel used is the Holiday Inn in Bedford. Nice hotel but not much in the area. The hotel will drive you if you need to get somewhere (3 mile radius I think) Double occupancy for the first week of indoc. For the CRJ you are sent home for 10 days for CBTs. When you get back it is single occupancy. For the past few months it has been ORD E145 and CRJ. Rumors of E175 classes going to new hires this month or next. They will need to eventually hire into the 175 since it currently won't go to guys on property. The classes could be split though to include the CRJ since envoy plans on not sending any to PSA this year. Right now the 175 is only DFW but there are rumors of an Ord base. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

For the past year its been ORD E145, CRJ. However with the new vacancy that just came out it looks like people will have the option out of training to go to dallas E145.

PM sent.

Good Luck!

All correct except, now the hotel is single occupancy through all of training.

On our latest bid I expect the top 10 FOs on the 175 to be awarded Capt positions. That's almost a quarter of the FO list on the aircraft. New hires will probably start seeing the aircraft as early as late next month. No FOs currently on property can bid the 175.

Also the 175 initial training is all AQP.

So for the class dates of March 28th and April 10th any chance of a DFW domicile in either the 145 or 175?? Or is everyone getting sent to ORD?

I believe you will see DFW E75 awarded to the class that starts on Monday. I am expecting 5 or 6 DFW E75 spots with the remaining, if we get that many new hires to get ORD CRJ and or DFW EMJ.

Training Schedule
 

What is a typical schedule for initial training? Mon-Fri? 8-4? 9-5?

I'm asking for a "friend"...

Ha ha, two different handles and can't keep track of them. Any who... The E75 training has been moved to having some weekends off, this allows for improved QOL for the instructors (the company claims) but it lines up the initial day of training to slide right in after the last day of new hire Indoc.

Sure you are...winky face.

I live in the metroplex and was curious about the training schedule. If I decide to chase the Envoy signing bonus and retention carrot then I'll be at home during training.

Basically: should I tell the wife that I can still take the kids to baseball practice and Boy Scouts or not?

I mean...my friend was asking...I couldn't care less!