As soon as you figure out how to get one contract and one pilot list, unity is a pipe dream. How many of you have "mainline" contracts? Make whatever excuse you want, if you don't have one you caved for your own self interest.

I can't help but notice that you have become quite the expert in your less than one year of 121 time. But yes, after SAP became mysteriously " broken" I doubt the company will need to use it for a bargaining chip again. I do remember clearly when everyone on this thread was expounding its virtues. Do you think it helped in recruitment?

(Edit: I meant the other PSA thread)

It helped to convince me to go to PSA, so I'd say it was certainly a factor for at least some. And I am far from an expert, I would say rather I try to stay aware of what's happening at my airline (and others to some extent).

Well you guys have more leverage then you used to that's for sure. I see them coming up with some kind of CEL list in the future also between Envoy, PSA and PDT. Right now with the flow many PDT FO's will go to American before a ton of Junior Captains at PSA.

We don't need any more reasons to hate PSA.. 2013 was plenty enough.

Because they have been the only airline to pass a contract that "undercut" another airline, sure. Ask Comair pilots about that. I guess if it was before your time it never happened and the uncomfortable truth can be swept under the rug. BTW, how's that mainline contract you've got?

No its not before my time. I have been flying since the 90's.

We would all have better contracts right now if it wasn't for the places like PSA, Mesa and Gojets and the pilots willing to go there to undercut and get ahead at the expense of others. Eagle tried to STW and stand up for what was right in a time of record profits to just have their legs chopped out from under them by greedy upgrade hungry backstabbbers. If everyone said no collectively (which we tried to do with the ALPA FFD meetings) this BS would stop.

So Eagle never undercut Comair? Didn't Envoy just vote in a contract? Was it a mainline level contract? Justify it however you want. Everyone does what's best for them and their company when it comes down to the vote.

Lol! Dude you don't have a clue!

Strong rebuttal. You convinced me.

What are you talking about? American Eagle had been under a 16 year contract which was one of the best in the regional industry until AA filed bankruptcy and that went away. I don't know how far back you are even talking about..

We flew solely for AA and had nothing to do with Comair and Delta.. That was Mesa, RAH, and Gojet doing all that undercutting.

How many of PSA's aircraft were transferred away and scheduled to be parked right before their YES vote in 2013? Our fleet was decimated after our NO votes and because of PSA's YES vote. If we continued to vote NO we would be furloughing right now due to PSA caving. There is a big difference between the two groups votes.

And had PSA voted no, they would be gone. So it's okay for you to vote to save your job but no one else? Got it.

Oh really? Did they "actually" start transferring PSA's planes to somebody else or park them before the vote? Oh yeah.. It was Just another baseless management threat tactic to get the weak group to cave and fuel the whipsaw.

If everyone stood their ground managements whipsaw game would have been dead in its tracks. We'd all be better off.

This Tell me you haven't been in the industry long. Comair grew on the backs of cheap labor. You had to pay for your training to fly there. Their rates sucked and so did there contract. They grew and grew and then grew balls and striked. Got the best deal. Then what???? What they did happened to them. Others grew on cheaper labor. Wash and repeat.
Delta ended that game. Not so long ago Eagle signed a 16 year deal for growth. They grew also and American pulled the plug on them also. Shrinking them and a good spanking.
To sit here and blame other regionals for screwing up the industry is sad and funny at the same time. Kinda like getting a blow job from a clown.
You blame PSA But you got ex comair people working there. Lol and people lined up for quick upgrades.
It is what it is!!! Upgrade get your pic time and move on. Don't waste to much energy saying your regional is better then mine. Cause tomorrow chances are it might not be.

Justify it however you want. The whipsaw started long before 400 pilot PSA and will continue until you can figure out how to keep people from losing pay and seniority between carrier moves. I'm certainly not trusting my financial stability or my families well being to some other pilot groups "good intentions."

This whole argument is stupid. All the regionals undercut the majors if it comes down to it.

The point is things were finally in a place to turn around for regionals, record profits, our leverage trending upwards.. And PSA completely screwed that momentum.

I apologize if my ranting made it seem like I was leaning on PSA being an amazing place. It sucks like all the others. I am in complete agreement with you. No company at this level is any better than another. I was just trying to point out the hypocrisy when people come on here vilifying PSA (or any carrier) for not voting in a way that would benefit them and their employer. We are all contract labor to be throw aside for the next cheapest supplier.

How so??? When Parker offered the PSA the first 900's the PSA MEC's said hell no to those rates. What did Parker do??? He sent those 900's to MESA who grabbed them with Arms wide Open! Then it came time to be offered them again and Parker let it be known they'd send more right to Mesa or maybe get Piedmont into the game. Another ALPA carrier! Piedmont held the line for a long time and what did it get us. Went from a fleet just over 100 planes down to 34.

Where was ALPA??? You want to point fingers I'd place much of it on ALPA National. ALPA allows these games to played out because there number one concern is their big whales.

So you really think a major carrier would let any regional dictate to them? Please. Why do you think there's multiple wholly owned regionals? The game will continue, just in house. Contract labor is easily replaced.

No apology needed. I totally understand I've just seen the game played to long and it's refreshing to know I won't be part of it soon.

Actually there is not. There is no difference in the two pilot groups votes. Both pilot groups caved. Both pilot groups had no choice (so they say). Both groups are weak. Actually if you look at it closely, Envoy caved 4 times.

Oh, and by the way, ALPA sucks.

I won't go as far in saying they suck. But it's however obvious more of there time and resources AIN'T spent worrying about the Regionals. However if you don't pay your dues much time and resources will be spent.:D

No, they are correct, alpa does su ck.

Behold... Agreement across PSA, PDT, ENY.

In unity,
Dog

This doesn't make any sense, the only leverage is a lack of supply of new FO's. That doesn't change rather you're in a contract or in negotiations.

What is frustrating you is the regional unions competing in an environment where Express has smaller fleets. Didn't the first Eagle contract fail because there wasn't a large enough of a fleet guarantee.

Cats and dogs living together......total anarchy!!!!!

There you have it folks, dreams do come true.

Great. Now lets get this thread back on track. There is only ever a very small window in any Envoy thread before eaglefly hijacks it anyway.

Wrong. They can't even staff what they have now. There is no replacement.

That's the second time you've thrown that number out there. Care to explain it this time?

Actually if you look at it closely, caving means that you had some backbone to begin with. Maybe you can tell me what it's called when you don't even bother to push back.


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