And the two year contract that goes along with it :rolleyes:

75 captain vacancies just went out and selections for the September flow will be coming out in a few days. The flow should be spooling back up close to 30/month.

Envoy isn't the best airline in the world, their employee relations have taken a nose dive lately. But they are upgrading and should be flowing at a very good clip. The new hire numbers have been steady and it's looking like the goal of 300 for the year is in range.


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Facts are facts.

Just like I'll clear 70-80k as an Fo this year. But hey let's just post punch lines. Especially from bitter ex employees.

Just a data point, but a person I know who was selected to be in class at AA this month was summarily fired by Envoy. No, he's not a union guy in any way - just a regular ol' line pilot. Will he probably get his job back? yes, but it'll likely be many, many months - like maybe next summer. I feel bad for the guy.

What kind of people can actually do this to someone and sleep at night?

What was the reason for termination? Doesn't matter to me who it is, I'm just trying to gauge the reasons people are getting fired for lately. Mostly social media, Ray's is iffy, and I haven't heard any other reasons.

Just as predictable as a bitter former envoy employee showing up doing his best to bash the company who fired him. I'm proud to defend my own, are you proud about your actions? Is it something you would like to talk about during a United interview? Its a small industry, and we know who you are. What are the chances, do you think, of you ever working for another ALPA carrier again? ;)

It's not difficult to understand. If you're young and have ambitions of flying for one of the big 3, start your career at a regional with a flow or at least a defined path to its mainline partner. If Southwest, JetBlue, Spirit, etc is where you want to make a career at, then go anywhere. It really is that simple.

Given that AA will soon be hiring loads of folks off the street this upcoming year and the ones thereafter, going to an AA wholly owned won't matter in the slightest if one's goal is to end up there. AA will most definitely NOT flow its regional feed out of existence. Anyone with sufficient flight time and experience can apply to AA and have a good shot at going there soon, no matter which regional one chooses to work for.

You clearly have no idea how it works. I originally wasn't even going to entertain this post, but you sucked me in. Here goes:

Currently 70%+ of AA classes are flows. That will continue for another 2-3 years at which point flows will be 50%. That means for the next 2-3 years off the street hires at AA will only be 30% or less. Eventually they will be 50%.

So with such a relatively low number of off the street hires, you can count on all of them being a combination of ex-military and family with deep connections. Your "loads of street hires" comment is inaccurate, and in any case AA has over 11,000 applications including just about every single Captain and FO flying for the LCCs. So why, pray tell, would they hire a 1,000 hour Regional wonder ahead of everyone else? Wake up.

Haha, let us know how that works out for you. Unless you have some serious connections or a stellar resume, you're not a special snowflake.

Not everyone working at a regional, LLC or ACMI will want to work for AA (they're not my number one at all), or even have the capability to do so owing to a plethora of extraneous circumstances. Also there are many less military aviators being produced today than in the past, and those aviators have much higher flexibility in selecting which carriers they will work for, and if you haven't noticed yet all the big players are hiring and demand will only go up for that limited pool of candidates in the future.

I think I will take my chances and avoid the AA wholly owneds like moldy bread, even if it means working somewhere for much longer to have the chance to work at AA. But I do wish everyone working there absolutely good luck with whatever the future has in store for them.

I don't know who he is.


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Traditionally it's very hard to get fired from an airline, especially a regional. If Envoy fired someone they must have had probable cause. Trust me airlines do not go about firing people without cause. We should all be happy they are taking a firm stand against troublemakers, we don't want them here at AA either.

It's really not hard to keep your job - I have only known a handful of folks who got canned, most for drug/alcohol issues.

It's hard to get permanently fired. The rep in question has filed a grievance over what he termed an unjust termination. The union will certainly work to get his job back, and I bet they will.

This guy is a stellar human being, a great person to be around, and is a good pilot. Troublemaker is never a word anybody would use to describe this person. He is not a union rep either. considering two people were fired that day, I smell a witch hunt intended to straighten up the rest of the minions.

Just playing devil's advocate. If this were the case why hasn't the company fired a bunch of flows? Just because this person is a "stellar" person to people that know him doesn't mean they didn't do something to warrant getting fired.

Unless Envoy is firing all 30 potential flow throughs it might be beneficial to keep an open mind. This person did something to garner the attention.

You really don't know this management, do you.
There are more morons here that should not be near an airplane but they kiss the right body part on management and they are still here plus they snitch. That the way it is here.

Are the emj and 175 schedules for September, as bad as the crj schedules.

I would say the 175 got a little better while the crj schedules were made by people on drugs.

I'd tell you more, but it's not appropriate, considering he's in the beginning stages of the process of getting his job back. Trust me when I say witch hunt. If I told you what he told me they gave as the reason he was fired, you'd be absolutely floored with disbelief. He later found out a bit more about the probable back story. Yea...it is weak.

You don't have a clue. Have you ever read Flying The Line parts 1 and 2? People have been fired from the airlines without cause since the infancy of this industry. Not only that, but they DON'T have just cause in one of the cases I know for sure. The true troublemakers have stuck around for decades, or flowed in many cases. Your analysis isn't anywhere close to accurate in this case.

Envoy does have contractual provisions for both unpaid days off (used to be coded PO) and personal emergency/bereavement (used to be coded PE). However, good luck getting either approved. The manager of crew scheduling has basically said no drops or unpaid days off would be granted over the summer, and the CPO has had a lot of power taken away from them by upper management. I've talked to individuals in both the DFW and ORD offices, and although they do what they can, they are receiving an enourmous amount of pressure from above. Funerals are part of the grieving process in our culture, and an emotional outlet as part of the stages of grief. The company treating us as robots and denying we are emotional beings puts a lot of people in peril unnecessary, including said pilot.

I would be LMAO at this statement if I didn't have to actually live with these schedules. They suck!

Drugs give you creativity, these were made by those people, just the day after a binge.

I bid for September to have 15 off, crap for credit, and will not pick up ot. I feel these tools build these schedules so we do pick up OT. I just wasted one of there lines.

It's still possible to get PE. I had to use bereavement in June. I had my 3 bereavement days and then 3 PE days. No issues. I used sick time to cover the PE days.

No complains on the E175 here. Makes sense, the growing newest fleet gets better lines while the shrinking less reliable planes are getting the bad schedules.

For all you guys considering envoy I would hardly recommend the E175.

I was jumpseating on an MD80 a few weeks ago, I think the crew was talking about you. There were telling me about one of our young new hires who said that he would be at AA in 5 years, but he is only willing to fly the 777.

True story, lol

I think you jerk to a poster of that plane at night. By the way, your last sentence is telling people to avoid the 175 after you just talked big about its schedules. You look like such a bright pilot in these boards....

you sir need a reality check big time.

also when they do run a displacement, just dont know when, those on the e175 new hire will be lowing but back wards to the e145.

Don't feed the troll


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Yeah, like thats gonna happen anytime soon.:rolleyes:

ask the new hire crj f/o's a few years ago, same boat.

= no pilot shortage.

Anyone could call into question the motives of someone who is "positive" about their company. Here is an article written by an outsider looking at the industry as a whole.

https://www.thestreet.com/story/1356...e-answers.html

Notice what he sees as a future trend with regionals and the trends seen with the wholly owned regionals of Delta and AA.

If what he predicts is true, we will see fewer regionals flying and more flow agreements going forward which will mean fewer "off the street" options for regional pilots aspiring to move up. If someone chooses to go to a wholly owned regional, and this guy's predictions are wrong, they can still pursue a traditional job search but if someone chooses to go to a non wholly owned without a flow and the flow agreement trend continues, they may find themselves fighting over fewer and fewer off the street positions while competing against military and affirmative action applicants.

Something to think about.

Selling an Envoy FO seat today is about as close as one can get to selling a deck chair onboard the Titanic after it struck the iceberg.

Bravo for your effort though.

Would you like to tell everyone about the day you got fired from envoy? Or is it still to painful? I'd hate to make you ball your eyes out again. I think they made a very good decision letting you go. You obviously are not a safe employee.

It's "bawl", and while I disagree with ag's continuous *****-fest, because he contributes absolutely squat and has ****-all to say other than his usual anti-ENY junk, we don't need to be sinking to the level of trotting out personal details like that. You wanna say he got fired? Ok, but spilling personal details like that should be left out. JMO.

If you think the legacy airlines will somehow be able to get "more picky" with who and where they choose to hire from, I don't think it is worth wasting any breath to try and convince you otherwise. Logic is hard for some.