Envoy or Republic?
 

Hey guys, so I'm planning on moving to the US soon, I'm currently flying the E190 as a FO for the past 3 years for an airline in South America. I've been looking out for regionals to apply and I've seen overall they offer the same (bases, pay, airplane, etc).

I'm interested in Envoy and Republic (since they have the Ejet), what would you guys suggest me supposing I get an offer with both, what would you do if you get offered a FO position with any of them?... pros/cons

I appreciate your help, I'm new to the regionals and basically flying in the US, so any info would help out for my decision. Thanks in advance!

Well, I'm looking at both of those, too. Republic guarantees the 170/175. You may or may not get it at envoy, and from what I understand, you are NOT allowed to switch aircraft unless you're upgrading.

Oh I didn't know about that, thanks for the info... and do you know by any chance, how do they award either the E175 or the E145 at Envoy? I would clearly target the E175 since I'm already type rated and have some experience in it.

As it is I would say republic. Envoy is a mess and still downsizing. Only thing envoy offers is flow to aa, but, it will cost you in loss of pay and quality of life compared to republic.

Make America Great again!

Envoy class seniority (and thus selecting the aircraft/base combination) is done by age in the class. If you're ok with the 145, you'd be almost certain to get that or the 175, unless you are very young and were only left with the crj 700 which is based only in ord.

I would do more research if I were you and at the bottom of the list would be aircraft type, not the top.

Just sent you a PM.

It still boggles my mind that people actually think it matters whether or not you fly a CRJ, 145, or EJet...If I were choosing a company to go to that would be literally the very last thing I would care about.

Do you make less 2nd year at Republic then?

First year is $40/hr plus $12,500 sign on.
Then second year is $41/hr.

Is there a retention bonus for year 2 and beyond or do you make more in year 1 than you do in subsequent years.

Also, is there any commitment with the sign on?

Thanks for the info.

You need to be currently at a 121 carrier in order to get $12,500 at republic.

Yup and if you are not they take about 7500 from the 12500 to cover your atp ctp.

It boggles my mind that one wouldn't consider it. I mean, different airframes can do a lot. Route structure, leg length, which base each aircraft is in, cockpit noise, workload differences due to automation, etc are all factors to consider. In today's pilot market, we have the luxury to look and choose. Options are out there like never before, why not factor that into the equation in choosing an employer?

Unless you plan on staying at that particular regional for your entire career, why would it matter what aircraft you start off on? You're going to fly a multitude of different aircraft throughout your career. Base, pay, QOL, and career progression should be what matters most. Do you really think Delta, United, or AA care which type of RJ you fly? I can assure you that a EJet type is meaningless when put in comparison to a CRJ or a 145 type.

Btw...I laughed at that "automation" comment. Most guys are coming from a CFI background and you think that a CRJ or 145 is not automated enough for them?! Wow....

We all have our own agendas, for sure. I agree 100% that base, qol, career progression are the most important criteria. Completely agree. However, often these things can be a wash, so the next items to evaluate are things like aircraft type, length of reserve, min days off, length of training, etc. Anything else on top of the primary things we agree on. In a close race, all things matter.

Might want to consider which aircraft type is more likely to be in service when things slow or flying shrinks. There are dozens of 200s and 145s in the desert for a reason.

So the question still remains. If coming from a 121, so eligible for the $12,500 sign-on bonus, do I need to plan for my second year salary to be lower? Is there a retention bonus after year 1?

And is there any commitment for the $12,500? I guess I should just call a recruiter but thought you guys might know. Thanks.

At RAH that's the only bonus, and it's a prorated 2 years.

Won't matter which plane as much as what company. At this stage in the industry I'm not too worried about things slowing down. If we were on the cusp of a slowdown, then regionals wouldn't be falling all over themselves to recruit/hire anyone with the necessary time.

This is ridiculous, picking a regional based on cockpit noise and route structure. Is this for real?

$7500 with no experience
$10000 with 135 experience
$12500 121 experience

Prorated 2 years.
Second year you will make $41.40/hr

PM if you need more info

Current 121 or previous 121 for the full $12,500 sign on?

I will indeed... the perks of having 2 citizenships

Ok cool, I'd be more than happy with the 175 since I already fly the 190. Thx for the info!

Thanks, however the aircraft is important for my decision; I'm already changing countries, company... so I would feel pretty comfortable getting there and flying basically the same airplane I'm currently flying.

I do care to be honest, doing a transition to another aircraft type right now wouldn't be my personal choice, if I have to I'll do it, but having over 1500 hours in the Ejet I'm feeling comfortable right now so that would be great

I don't get it at all, but to each their own I guess. I've flown 3 different aircraft types during my time at envoy and will fly many different more throughout my career. Learning a new aircraft is part of the job and helps us become better pilots. The more knowledge we can take in the better.

Like I said, I'd be more concerned about pay, qol, bases, and career projections as opposed to worrying about what aircraft you'll fly. Trust me, there's absolutely nothing special about the ejet...it's a regional jet.

This mentality will have you sitting captain on a 175 looking at the first officer in a mainline 737 hired the same time as you 5 years earlier. You both will be captains on those airplanes ten years later. Only one of you will own your companies flying, get 16% of your income into your retirement for free, and not ride the nightmare of fee for departure flying.....


But hey cockpit noise.

You aren't going to be flying with the same procedures anyway so why are you making such a big deal of it? Good luck then, potentially saving a few days of short term pain in lieu of long term gain in my opinion isn't smart but you seem to have your mind made already.

You obviously were not around in 2008.
"Hire until we fire"

Lol, I never mentioned cockpit noise. In fact, I have the chance to do a transition for the 737 for the company I fly for right now (a mainline in South America) and I'm willing to give up on that and even get a big pay cut in order to fly in the US as you guys say, a regional airplane that is basically the same thing as a CRJ or a E145, which I may agree, but right now those are not my priorities (that's why I mentioned it would be better for me but not a must) if I have to do a transition I'm willing to do it, we all have a long career and will be flying lots of different airplanes so who cares. Right now in this particular moment, changing countries, new company, new procedures, new peers and new everything in my life, I'd rather feel somewhat comfortable with what I'm flying at first, what's the big deal anyway, I just asked Envoy or Republic?

Republic has shorter upgrade times and no pay cap for FOs.

The big deal is lots of people on here want to jump on other folks' motivations if they don't exactly match a prescribed set of parameters. And the only people who get to set those parameters are the jumpers. Find the regional that best suits your quality of life and basing desires would be my input. If you don't mind early starts/late finishes, some of Republic's outstation bases have lower costs of living. We used to have some of the best pay out there, until the American wholly owned companies bumped their new hire bonuses. $40/hr and $12,500 (current 121) bonus is still a pretty good deal for your first year. End of the day, you probably can't go wrong. I personally think Republic is a better choice but I work here so take it with a grain of salt.

Serious question.

How will republic continue to staff the airline, when they offer equal pay minus a flow through.

If they survive it's going to be with a smaller, ever shrinking fleet, and the longest upgrades because of no movement and an inability to attract new hires.

Just my opinion.

Doesn't make sense to me why anyone would go there.

Just a wild guess here but in my humble opinion it will be the next XJet. The history looks similar to me in that they bumped the pay way up but have long upgrade times(by today's standards). If they stop bringing people in then the upgrades will slow even more. Recruiters are hanging their hat on "best training and shiniest jets" - just go to an interview to see for yourself.

Almost everything they hope to do in the future hangs on a wing and a prayer. Waiting on AA to sign this contract while meanwhile AA is throwing big money to build up their wholly owned. I think (again just a humble opinion) if AA is able to staff their wholly owned they are not going to sign these deals Republic is banking on. With the money AA is throwing out via their WO they are going to be hard pressed to compete. Also, if you look at the Republic thread, United isn't given them as many aircraft as they were originally going to(I think if I understood correctly).

Then factor in that the same ****ty management that drove them into a "coffin corner" of bankruptcy is the only way out is the same management still driving the bus. Just read through the Republic threads, pilots in general do not seem to like the management at all. You don't just break your contracts and write new ones and it expect it to be all hunky dory. That's like winning an argument with your wife. If you don't believe that fosters ill will that will be long remembered I got a bridge for sale....

After all those considerations, their lines aren't that good and their outstations suck even worse. If you take Miami out of the equation I don't think anyone would go there unless they happened to already live in base.

Add in they are a Teamster union - seems to be 50/50 on how people feel about that.

So yea, my opinion totally agrees with your opinion - I don't know why anyone would go there.

What makes you say the fleet will shrink? RAH has deliveries coming. And guys are leaving at a rate comparable to what flows are supposed to do, but with more variety rather than people going to 1 company.

What say ye to those who say unless you are military or at a WO, you will never go to AA mainline?

I'd say that's untrue.

There are obviously pilots at Republic that are happy and pilots that went to Republic that have went on to work at all the major and lcc airlines, including AA.

As if a flow is the end all be all for staffing, and nobody can staff without a flow. . . and that's a serious question? :rolleyes:

SkyWest can staff without a flow AND less pay.

With a ton of 50-seaters still, you really think Envoy's not going to shrink in the future?