Why XJT? (ORD)
08-31-2018, 07:08 AM
#1
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 606
Why XJT? (ORD)
With Envoy, SkyWest, Republic, Air Wisconsin, Trans States, and GoJet as potential employers out of Chicago, why should I consider ExpressJet? What are some of the current pros and cons of the company?
Admittedly, I was targeting Envoy & SkyWest for ORD -- ExpressJet was at the bottom of the list. However, recent talks of United building up XJT (-200s, potentially -175SCs), a new contract, United CPP, and even slightly credible rumors of United purchasing the company have got my attention.
Admittedly, back in 2009/2010, before I joined the military, ExpressJet seemed like THE place to work: good contract, decent pay, good training, employees seemed happy. SkyWest appears to have gut punched the company pretty hard. However, with all the hiring at the majors, seems like it's a new playing field with tons of opportunity and optimism. I leave active duty at the end of the year and am hoping for good news for all of you and maybe a reason to reconsider XJT.
Admittedly, I was targeting Envoy & SkyWest for ORD -- ExpressJet was at the bottom of the list. However, recent talks of United building up XJT (-200s, potentially -175SCs), a new contract, United CPP, and even slightly credible rumors of United purchasing the company have got my attention.
Admittedly, back in 2009/2010, before I joined the military, ExpressJet seemed like THE place to work: good contract, decent pay, good training, employees seemed happy. SkyWest appears to have gut punched the company pretty hard. However, with all the hiring at the majors, seems like it's a new playing field with tons of opportunity and optimism. I leave active duty at the end of the year and am hoping for good news for all of you and maybe a reason to reconsider XJT.
08-31-2018, 07:10 AM
#2
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Joined APC: May 2013
Position: Flaps & Ldg Gear Executive Director
Posts: 100
You answered the question yourself; WHY XJT, WHY?
Sorry for being a little bit of a jerk, but nothing has changed. We are about to get to vote for a new contract, that we don't know details of. There's a rumor from management that we are going to bid for 25 ERJ 175's. Airplanes that would be coming to UAL system replacing CRJ 700's. The only tangible that you have today coming on property is that you'll be 1600 ish in a seniority list, but I may say that the top 30 to 40% of our pilots are not going to United. So CPP "may" work for you.
Sorry for being a little bit of a jerk, but nothing has changed. We are about to get to vote for a new contract, that we don't know details of. There's a rumor from management that we are going to bid for 25 ERJ 175's. Airplanes that would be coming to UAL system replacing CRJ 700's. The only tangible that you have today coming on property is that you'll be 1600 ish in a seniority list, but I may say that the top 30 to 40% of our pilots are not going to United. So CPP "may" work for you.
08-31-2018, 07:39 AM
#5
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Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,888
Well, I would avoid GoJet. Not even a whisper about them getting the UAL -175’s, and since they have 25 -700’s on the UAL contract everyone’s assumption is that those will be hacked to make room on the UAL scope for the -175’s. Things will probably get ugly there fast.
On the XJT side I would view it as buying a stock that has been beaten down. You may hit a home run and get in just before things take off. If things do turn around it will be pilots getting hired just prior who normally make out the best. If things don’t work out take your training someplace else and get a bonus in the process.
On the XJT side I would view it as buying a stock that has been beaten down. You may hit a home run and get in just before things take off. If things do turn around it will be pilots getting hired just prior who normally make out the best. If things don’t work out take your training someplace else and get a bonus in the process.
08-31-2018, 07:40 AM
#6
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Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 592
Yea, it's a fine place to work generally. Excellent training, generally strong work rules, pay should increase substantially (it better) with the new TA, good support from chief pilots, very non-punitive culture.
All the following based on my own hearsay.
SkyWest is non-union and they've been going downhill fast. Expect to get abused with min days off. And you have no union protection, so enjoy that.
Envoy, I haven't heard good things at all. Terrible reserve rules, forced upgrade to LGA, hostile management, incompetent union. Be ready to be abused.
GoJet is still regarded as an alter-ego airline that was set up to get around Trans States.
Trans States, I've heard it's not great but maybe it's better now.
Republic is very good. Excellent pay, work rules, scheduling, and culture, but their ORD base has been shrinking. You can hold it fairly soon as a FO but I think reserve is a long time and it takes 5 years at least to hold CA (followed by endless reserve).
All the following based on my own hearsay.
SkyWest is non-union and they've been going downhill fast. Expect to get abused with min days off. And you have no union protection, so enjoy that.
Envoy, I haven't heard good things at all. Terrible reserve rules, forced upgrade to LGA, hostile management, incompetent union. Be ready to be abused.
GoJet is still regarded as an alter-ego airline that was set up to get around Trans States.
Trans States, I've heard it's not great but maybe it's better now.
Republic is very good. Excellent pay, work rules, scheduling, and culture, but their ORD base has been shrinking. You can hold it fairly soon as a FO but I think reserve is a long time and it takes 5 years at least to hold CA (followed by endless reserve).
08-31-2018, 08:05 AM
#7
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 606
Originally Posted by andili61
You answered the question yourself; WHY XJT, WHY?
Sorry for being a little bit of a jerk, but nothing has changed. We are about to get to vote for a new contract, that we don't know details of. There's a rumor from management that we are going to bid for 25 ERJ 175's. Airplanes that would be coming to UAL system replacing CRJ 700's. The only tangible that you have today coming on property is that you'll be 1600 ish in a seniority list, but I may say that the top 30 to 40% of our pilots are not going to United. So CPP "may" work for you.
Sorry for being a little bit of a jerk, but nothing has changed. We are about to get to vote for a new contract, that we don't know details of. There's a rumor from management that we are going to bid for 25 ERJ 175's. Airplanes that would be coming to UAL system replacing CRJ 700's. The only tangible that you have today coming on property is that you'll be 1600 ish in a seniority list, but I may say that the top 30 to 40% of our pilots are not going to United. So CPP "may" work for you.
Originally Posted by Jefferson
Imma send you a PM with some good gouge...
08-31-2018, 08:16 AM
#8
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 606
Originally Posted by Blackhawk
Well, I would avoid GoJet. Not even a whisper about them getting the UAL -175’s, and since they have 25 -700’s on the UAL contract everyone’s assumption is that those will be hacked to make room on the UAL scope for the -175’s. Things will probably get ugly there fast.
On the XJT side I would view it as buying a stock that has been beaten down. You may hit a home run and get in just before things take off. If things do turn around it will be pilots getting hired just prior who normally make out the best. If things don’t work out take your training someplace else and get a bonus in the process.
On the XJT side I would view it as buying a stock that has been beaten down. You may hit a home run and get in just before things take off. If things do turn around it will be pilots getting hired just prior who normally make out the best. If things don’t work out take your training someplace else and get a bonus in the process.
That's exactly how I'm viewing XJT as it stands right now -- buying 'low' on a stock. It's part of what has piqued my interest in the company lately. Something has to give with SkyWest, Inc. ... either they dismantle the company or offload them. With United showing overt interest in XJT as of late, something is up, it's just anyone's guess as to what the short to long term plans are.
08-31-2018, 08:27 AM
#9
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 606
Originally Posted by Arliss
Yea, it's a fine place to work generally. Excellent training, generally strong work rules, pay should increase substantially (it better) with the new TA, good support from chief pilots, very non-punitive culture.
All the following based on my own hearsay.
SkyWest is non-union and they've been going downhill fast. Expect to get abused with min days off. And you have no union protection, so enjoy that.
Envoy, I haven't heard good things at all. Terrible reserve rules, forced upgrade to LGA, hostile management, incompetent union. Be ready to be abused.
GoJet is still regarded as an alter-ego airline that was set up to get around Trans States.
Trans States, I've heard it's not great but maybe it's better now.
Republic is very good. Excellent pay, work rules, scheduling, and culture, but their ORD base has been shrinking. You can hold it fairly soon as a FO but I think reserve is a long time and it takes 5 years at least to hold CA (followed by endless reserve).
All the following based on my own hearsay.
SkyWest is non-union and they've been going downhill fast. Expect to get abused with min days off. And you have no union protection, so enjoy that.
Envoy, I haven't heard good things at all. Terrible reserve rules, forced upgrade to LGA, hostile management, incompetent union. Be ready to be abused.
GoJet is still regarded as an alter-ego airline that was set up to get around Trans States.
Trans States, I've heard it's not great but maybe it's better now.
Republic is very good. Excellent pay, work rules, scheduling, and culture, but their ORD base has been shrinking. You can hold it fairly soon as a FO but I think reserve is a long time and it takes 5 years at least to hold CA (followed by endless reserve).
08-31-2018, 12:40 PM
#10
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Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 592
There are lots of protections. It goes WAY beyond pay, work rules, benefits, etc., but having that in a legally binding contract is imperative. It means having a barrier between you and both management and the FAA if something goes wrong. It means having access to additional disability insurance. And it's contributing to the advocacy for safety and protection of our jobs. SkyWest pilots reap all the benefits that ALPA has delivered over the decades (safety advances, fatigue rules and programs, KCM, etc.) without contributing anything. I consider it a form of theft.
Republic and Gojet are both Teamsters, so they at least participate in representation and the Teamsters have a long-existing airline division.
Also, Republics upgrade is pretty quick at 2.5 years, but your first upgrade opportunity will be LGA or EWR. The 5 year figure is to hold CA in ORD.
Republic and Gojet are both Teamsters, so they at least participate in representation and the Teamsters have a long-existing airline division.
Also, Republics upgrade is pretty quick at 2.5 years, but your first upgrade opportunity will be LGA or EWR. The 5 year figure is to hold CA in ORD.
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