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XJT ALPA CPP update.
6 July 2019
Over the past eight months, the Association has repeatedly requested information about what the next generation of the United Career Path Program (CPP) would look like, or if there will even be one going forward. Since its inception the CPP has been plagued with issues and there has been little to no communication with participants, or the Association for that matter, about potential fixes or what the future holds for pilots at XJT in terms of career progression. Our requests for information were designed to provide feedback to United and the company about ways to improve the program for all parties involved. Yesterday, we finally received the company’s first CPP communication in some time. This communication, strategically sent to a frustrated and exhausted pilot group over a holiday weekend, is language added to the CPP’s attendance and reliability policy. The update states: United recently made a revision to the “Dependability” section of the CPP program. Specifically, a statement has been added that states “A complete dependability history (excused and unexcused occurrences) will be reviewed by United’ [sic] Board of Review (BOR).” My preliminary discussions with the MECs of other CPP carriers indicate that this change is, to our present knowledge, exclusive to ExpressJet. While a majority of the attendance and reliability section of the CPP remains unchanged, the Association views yesterday’s update as a pitifully desperate and unoriginal attempt by a similarly-versed management team to solve their mounting operational and staffing issues by threatening possible career repercussions if you call in sick. Our sick calls have increased, but this is no doubt due to the increased physical and psychological stress our pilots face — a symptom of the horrendous state of life on the line and management’s inability to solve the staffing challenges they face. Quality of life has fallen to record lows at XJT, resulting in over-worked and over-extended pilots who, being human, then get sick. This revision essentially results in two different sick policies for XJT pilots to abide by; the first is the company’s current Attendance and Reliability Program policy and the second is outlined in the CPP guidelines to be used to determine a pilot’s eligibility for the CPP. The company’s sick note policy on xjt.com and the provisions in our collective bargaining agreement remain unchanged. The Federal Aviation Administration Regulations require pilots to assess their fitness for flight prior to each and every flight, and a pilot who calls in sick and meets the requirements of the company’s sick note policy cannot be disciplined. Your ability to conduct safe operations should be your one and only consideration when determining your fitness for duty. To be clear, a pilot should only call in sick if he or she is unfit and should not call in sick if fit for duty. However, the company’s attempt to circumvent and undermine our negotiated work rules while pressuring this decision is simply unacceptable. Thus far, the CPP has mostly been used as a recruiting and retention tool. Any attempt to sell it as a career progression tool is bogus, as a majority of qualified XJT pilots are unable to progress through the program, L-ASA pilots have yet to be considered and many are still waiting on a second-round Hogan. The recruiting department has recently and unethically used the program to claim on social media that “thousands” of pilots have moved on to United Airlines through the CPP. This claim is false. Even if they were speaking collectively of all UAX CPP carriers, the total number of pilots who have progressed to UAL through the CPP is fewer than 500. The use of such a terribly mismanaged program to attract pilots on the one hand while simultaneously placing additional pressure on our exploited pilot group on the other is a move the Association deems intolerable on every front. Continue, as you always have, to take professional assessment of your fitness to fly in accordance with the regulations in order to keep yourself, your crew and your passengers safe. If this program is going to continue to be used to control the pilots at XJT rather than fixing the challenges through the proper channels, it will ultimately become a program your MEC cannot support. In unity, ExpressJet MEC Chairman |
Originally Posted by CPPfacts
(Post 2848489)
6 July 2019
Over the past eight months, the Association has repeatedly requested information about what the next generation of the United Career Path Program (CPP) would look like, or if there will even be one going forward. Since its inception the CPP has been plagued with issues and there has been little to no communication with participants, or the Association for that matter, about potential fixes or what the future holds for pilots at XJT in terms of career progression. Our requests for information were designed to provide feedback to United and the company about ways to improve the program for all parties involved. Yesterday, we finally received the company’s first CPP communication in some time. This communication, strategically sent to a frustrated and exhausted pilot group over a holiday weekend, is language added to the CPP’s attendance and reliability policy. The update states: United recently made a revision to the “Dependability” section of the CPP program. Specifically, a statement has been added that states “A complete dependability history (excused and unexcused occurrences) will be reviewed by United’ [sic] Board of Review (BOR).” My preliminary discussions with the MECs of other CPP carriers indicate that this change is, to our present knowledge, exclusive to ExpressJet. While a majority of the attendance and reliability section of the CPP remains unchanged, the Association views yesterday’s update as a pitifully desperate and unoriginal attempt by a similarly-versed management team to solve their mounting operational and staffing issues by threatening possible career repercussions if you call in sick. Our sick calls have increased, but this is no doubt due to the increased physical and psychological stress our pilots face — a symptom of the horrendous state of life on the line and management’s inability to solve the staffing challenges they face. Quality of life has fallen to record lows at XJT, resulting in over-worked and over-extended pilots who, being human, then get sick. This revision essentially results in two different sick policies for XJT pilots to abide by; the first is the company’s current Attendance and Reliability Program policy and the second is outlined in the CPP guidelines to be used to determine a pilot’s eligibility for the CPP. The company’s sick note policy on xjt.com and the provisions in our collective bargaining agreement remain unchanged. The Federal Aviation Administration Regulations require pilots to assess their fitness for flight prior to each and every flight, and a pilot who calls in sick and meets the requirements of the company’s sick note policy cannot be disciplined. Your ability to conduct safe operations should be your one and only consideration when determining your fitness for duty. To be clear, a pilot should only call in sick if he or she is unfit and should not call in sick if fit for duty. However, the company’s attempt to circumvent and undermine our negotiated work rules while pressuring this decision is simply unacceptable. Thus far, the CPP has mostly been used as a recruiting and retention tool. Any attempt to sell it as a career progression tool is bogus, as a majority of qualified XJT pilots are unable to progress through the program, L-ASA pilots have yet to be considered and many are still waiting on a second-round Hogan. The recruiting department has recently and unethically used the program to claim on social media that “thousands” of pilots have moved on to United Airlines through the CPP. This claim is false. Even if they were speaking collectively of all UAX CPP carriers, the total number of pilots who have progressed to UAL through the CPP is fewer than 500. The use of such a terribly mismanaged program to attract pilots on the one hand while simultaneously placing additional pressure on our exploited pilot group on the other is a move the Association deems intolerable on every front. Continue, as you always have, to take professional assessment of your fitness to fly in accordance with the regulations in order to keep yourself, your crew and your passengers safe. If this program is going to continue to be used to control the pilots at XJT rather than fixing the challenges through the proper channels, it will ultimately become a program your MEC cannot support. In unity, ExpressJet MEC Chairman They need to just get rid of the CPP, everyone is better off just getting hired off the street! I remember before the CPP, both junior and senior XJT pilots were getting hired off the street, no need to wait in seniority order... The CPP is actually holding people back, the amount of hiring needed at the majors the next 5 years is going to be crazy, you WILL get called for off the street interviews and over to UAL quicker than a stupid CPP! Time for the union to just request the end of the CPP!! |
Why dont we organize a conduit to other airlines? Im sure they would appreciate some well trained XJT material.
Airlines hiring now: JetBlue Alaska Allegiant Fedex UPS Spirit Frontier |
Kudos for posting the email. The new hires and potential new hires need to be aware of the lies and misinformation. There are definitely better choices out there.
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Originally Posted by Bluesteal
(Post 2848498)
They need to just get rid of the CPP, everyone is better off just getting hired off the street! I remember before the CPP, both junior and senior XJT pilots were getting hired off the street, no need to wait in seniority order... The CPP is actually holding people back, the amount of hiring needed at the majors the next 5 years is going to be crazy, you WILL get called for off the street interviews and over to UAL quicker than a stupid CPP! Time for the union to just request the end of the CPP!!
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Originally Posted by tonsterboy5
(Post 2848553)
The cpp has no bearing on ones ability to apply off the street
And there’s been a lucky few that were in the CPP and got an OTS and beat their CPP wait to UAL. Also an unlucky few who were in the CPP, had an OTS interview and weren’t selected. But I’d venture to guess that’s a VERY SMALL percentage. I’m guessing the amount of off the street XJT pilots hired pales in comparison to pre CPP. It’s going to be interesting soon. If I’m not mistaken, the majority of XJT have already had round 2. With the small trickle of new hires at XHT, that doesn’t leave many left to go. Anybody have info on how many are in the pool? |
Very few pilots will meet the new attendance requirements. United is using the XJT pilots as a punching bag. Fight back!
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The new attendance thing only matters for people in the CPP. Seems like very few are these days. The ones that aren’t will keep doing what they do.
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Is United less likely to hire you off the street if you're in the CPP?
I would like to see the hiring rates of CPP hires versus OTS hires of non-participating pilots. This of course will never be available, as everyone signs up for the CPP. Any internal policy on this? Rumors say United hiring folks have been told NOT to hire anyone in the CPP off the street. |
That said, a lot of pilots have been going via the CPP. 500 is a lot. They just finished up sending around 400 up in chunks of 40 per month.
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I shouldn't have eaten those tacos in Mexico few weeks ago. Next day I was so sick I had to call in sick. now I'm out of CPP, I guess
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Originally Posted by watch
(Post 2848611)
That said, a lot of pilots have been going via the CPP. 500 is a lot. They just finished up sending around 400 up in chunks of 40 per month.
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Just a little tool to keep us regional pukes in line until they reject you in the final review for some nonsense anyway.
Dependability – A complete dependability history (excused and unexcused occurrences) will be reviewed by United’ BOR. Program participants must maintain dependable attendance, meaning no documented and unexcused occurrence of the following in a rolling twelve (12) month period while employed by ExpressJet: 1. Sick call over company recognized holiday 2. Failure to operate assigned flight or event without notice 3. Notification of sick leave less than 4 hours prior to departure 4. Notification of sick leave after beginning of reserve duty 5. Sick call impacting an assigned training event 6. Failure of the pilot to be contactable when required 7. Sick call prior to or following a scheduled vacation 8. Greater than four (4) absences, unless those absences are covered by the Family and Medical Leave Act I know I have personally hit 7 out of the 8 myself HAHAH. |
Ok. I’m going to be the dissenter here.
5% of the pilot group ruined it for the rest. Pilots using up their sick leave before turning in resignations. Using sick time to get out of flying over a holiday. You know who you are. If you’re sick you’re sick. But be prepared to get a doctor’s note. Heck, I’ve had it. Diagnosed with pink eye just before a trip. But my sick time never showed up even though I used it about once a year. When I was sick. |
Originally Posted by Blackhawk
(Post 2848798)
Ok. I’m going to be the dissenter here.
5% of the pilot group ruined it for the rest. Pilots using up their sick leave before turning in resignations. Using sick time to get out of flying over a holiday. You know who you are. If you’re sick you’re sick. But be prepared to get a doctor’s note. Heck, I’ve had it. Diagnosed with pink eye just before a trip. But my sick time never showed up even though I used it about once a year. When I was sick. A doctors note only excuses you from disciplinary action from the company. Am I understanding this incorrectly? |
Originally Posted by watch
(Post 2848610)
Is United less likely to hire you off the street if you're in the CPP?
I would like to see the hiring rates of CPP hires versus OTS hires of non-participating pilots. This of course will never be available, as everyone signs up for the CPP. Any internal policy on this? Rumors say United hiring folks have been told NOT to hire anyone in the CPP off the street. |
So, UA and the company string along the pilot group for years about a “new and improved” CPP, with Greg Woolley telling people to their face in crew rooms that a flow was “imminent”, and UA rolls out this POS?
What a slap in the face to the hard working folks that stuck it out and tried to make XJT a better place. What a dumpster fire that joint has turned into. |
If hired at XJT, but you don't apply/get accepted for the CPP. But apply to United as an OTS. Does that hurt you? Is that a black mark for simply being employed with XJT and applying to United?
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Originally Posted by MacrossJet
(Post 2849078)
If hired at XJT, but you don't apply/get accepted for the CPP. But apply to United as an OTS. Does that hurt you? Is that a black mark for simply being employed with XJT and applying to United?
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Originally Posted by DirkDiggler
(Post 2849171)
There is one XJT guy who was accepted into the CPP, passed everything and was in the pool. Then wanted to try his luck OTS and bombed the OTS interview and thought, ok no biggie I’m in the CPP still. NOPE. So like a YEAR later he gets a notice stating sorry you failed OTS so you’re outta the CPP. Complete BS. So I can imagine it works both ways.
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Originally Posted by Puck Hawg
(Post 2849034)
So, UA and the company string along the pilot group for years about a “new and improved” CPP, with Greg Woolley telling people to their face in crew rooms that a flow was “imminent”, and UA rolls out this POS?
What a slap in the face to the hard working folks that stuck it out and tried to make XJT a better place. What a dumpster fire that joint has turned into. |
Originally Posted by Bluesteal
(Post 2849466)
Wooley telling people that a flow is imminent? haha shocking he would say something like that to people... if I was in a casino right now and I had to bet if Xjt would get a flow or not, I would put every penny I had on Xjt not getting a flow. Wooley used to be one of us, it's amazing what a management position will do to you LOL
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I once witness him tell someone on a rolled day that the company was not rolling any days at the moment. Boy was he surprised! Sometimes I think he's just as in the dark as the rest of us...
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I've heard the "flow" contract is already signed and sitting in a drawer somewhere. It's a matter of time before it's announced but XJT has to have its personnel in place to make it work. They first need to fully staff XJT before they can start flowing pilots to United. What interest would United have in buying ownership in XJT is they weren't going to utilize the XJT pilot pipeline?
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Originally Posted by georgiaflyer
(Post 2850460)
I've heard the "flow" contract is already signed and sitting in a drawer somewhere. It's a matter of time before it's announced but XJT has to have its personnel in place to make it work. They first need to fully staff XJT before they can start flowing pilots to United. What interest would United have in buying ownership in XJT is they weren't going to utilize the XJT pilot pipeline?
As well as a host of other tall tales? |
Originally Posted by afterburn81
(Post 2848845)
If I’m reading the “dependability” list right, a doctors note does not exempt a sick call from the 4 in 12 with respect to the CPP. Only FMLA.
A doctors note only excuses you from disciplinary action from the company. Am I understanding this incorrectly? |
Originally Posted by georgiaflyer
(Post 2850460)
I've heard the "flow" contract is already signed and sitting in a drawer somewhere. It's a matter of time before it's announced but XJT has to have its personnel in place to make it work. They first need to fully staff XJT before they can start flowing pilots to United. What interest would United have in buying ownership in XJT is they weren't going to utilize the XJT pilot pipeline?
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There is no need for a flow... The whipsaw will always continue in the regional industry. In about a month or so Ual will announce another 40 175's going to XJT, Mesa contract will expire shifting planes over to Xjt and the bottom half of Mesa seniority list to leave Mesa for XJT, we are our own worst enemy. The whipsaw will always remain! Sad, but true.
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Originally Posted by Bluesteal
(Post 2850698)
There is no need for a flow... The whipsaw will always continue in the regional industry. In about a month or so Ual will announce another 40 175's going to XJT, Mesa contract will expire shifting planes over to Xjt and the bottom half of Mesa seniority list to leave Mesa for XJT, we are our own worst enemy. The whipsaw will always remain! Sad, but true.
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Originally Posted by andili61
(Post 2850670)
So United only wants to offer a flow when we're fat on pilots. If you see the company directory there are only 650 active pilots between captains and FO's. 179 captains and FO's on "L" status. Finally, people hired this year, or with seniority starting January 2019 including those already flying plus new hires on training are 224. We should be 325 pilots hired in 2019 by now. So if XJT wants to fly 125 ERJ's 145, and 25 175's we need solid 1500 pilots. Were are barely able to staff 70 airplanes as it is. I always thought that the flow plan, if it's true, would be to attract pilots in a cheaply manner, otherwise why would United have a flow in place?
XJT has the pilots for the 175s. |
Originally Posted by DBono
(Post 2850798)
I think you're right about the long term strategy, but I think it will take a long time to play out. The thing Mesa has that XJT doesn't is a large stable of 175 pilots who are ready to fly tomorrow. It's going to take a long time for XJT to hire and train enough people to staff the 30 175's that are coming available for re-assignment now/soon. Mesa owns 18 of the 175's they are flying for UA out of IAH. 12 of the others have agreements in place through Dec 2023. So there are 30 that could be considered "in play" in the near term. Considering that more new 175's at XJT might just be replacing large CRJs from the UA fleet, I don't think the Mesa 175's are going anywhere soon, assuming Mesa can staff them.
The UAL 175s at MESA are on 5 yr cpas, only need 90 day notice to be returned to UAL. It doesn't matter what hub/base they are in currently. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...709dex1095.htm Read page 9. The dates of the first 30 with the sch exit dates. |
Originally Posted by Texxx
(Post 2850841)
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...709dex1095.htm Read page 9. The dates of the first 30 with the sch exit dates. The key point is who has pilots to fly them at any given time. |
Originally Posted by Bluesteal
(Post 2850698)
There is no need for a flow... The whipsaw will always continue in the regional industry. In about a month or so Ual will announce another 40 175's going to XJT, Mesa contract will expire shifting planes over to Xjt and the bottom half of Mesa seniority list to leave Mesa for XJT, we are our own worst enemy. The whipsaw will always remain! Sad, but true.
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Originally Posted by Texxx
(Post 2850832)
Boy you haven't figured it out yet? You have 68 LRs and 29 XRs. They are transferring the XRs to C5 and gonna park the LRs and use those pilots to fly 175s.
XJT has the pilots for the 175s. |
The dumpster fire is still nice and hot at XJT.
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Originally Posted by Melit
(Post 2850905)
Close but no cigar! The next 25 175’s go to OO! Damn contracts always get in the way.
Besides, many others have pointed out that such agreements are commonly broken in this industry. SkyWest's 10-K has huge sections discussing how their contracts with mainline partners are subject to interpretation and disagreements about the interpretations are common, often ending in arbitration or litigation. We'll all know soon enough, I guess. |
Originally Posted by DirkDiggler
(Post 2851106)
The dumpster fire is still nice and hot at XJT.
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Originally Posted by DBono
(Post 2851604)
Has anyone actually seen the contract/agreement? All of the news reports that I saw said "dual-class" aircraft, which could include CRJ550's.
Besides, many others have pointed out that such agreements are commonly broken in this industry. SkyWest's 10-K has huge sections discussing how their contracts with mainline partners are subject to interpretation and disagreements about the interpretations are common, often ending in arbitration or litigation. We'll all know soon enough, I guess. |
Originally Posted by amcnd
(Post 2851655)
Well all we know is OO is sending 700’s to Gojet.. and not a peep about 550’s at OO... all the spare 700’s they could have used for 550’s will be at GoJet soon.
Go Jet is giving up some of their birds for Delta. At no point are they receiving any from OO (Skywest) |
Originally Posted by FlyRight2876
(Post 2852281)
What you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Go Jet is giving up some of their birds for Delta. At no point are they receiving any from OO (Skywest) |
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