CARES Act End Run
 

It looks like Expressjet is planning to move quite a number of people from the left seat to the right seat, and rather quickly too. How is that not a reduction in pay rate? Semantics maybe, but it certainly doesn't meet the intent of the payroll protection stipulation contained within the act, does it? Are any other airlines doing this before October?

As far as all the news that has been released, XJT and RPA have yet to receive funding from the CARES ACT.

I haven't seen anything official either, but they are operating under the assumption that they will receive the money.

It isn’t a reduction in the published rate, just which rate is used. It meets every restriction. The protection was in the published hourly rates and the inability to furlough before October, not in a persons historic take home pay. My company just parked the entire 756 fleet for May. This could be temporary, or we could announce a big displacement bid soon to get the pieces in place for the October furlough. If that’s the case, people all over the system will get bumped down to lower take home pay, but the published hourly rates haven’t changed.

It sounds like XJT is getting their pieces in place for the October furlough as well. If they are displacing a bunch of captains, I’d be willing to bet that those TSA planes aren’t going to see the line any time soon, if ever.

It doesn't surprise me that they are pulling this stunt. But they aren't the only ones doing it. United is trying to reclassify many of their ground support positions as "part time" now, which will reduce their pay rate and eliminate their employee benefits. Total scumbag move! In any case, moves like this certainly violate the spirit of the act which was to protect worker's paychecks at least until October.
I'd say to hit up your ALPA representatives and ask them to resist this, but I'd be willing to bet that most of them won't be hit by the downgrades.

Where exactly in the act does it state "published hourly rates". It just says "pay rate" in everything I've read. Getting your pay cut in half is certainly a change in one's pay rate. If the Act wasn't meant to protect people's historic take home pay, why did the application for the government money require applicants to document historic salaries?

Well they eliminated the E175 and haven’t grown by the airframes removed. Are they supposed to just be generous and stay over staffed?

I don’t see this as an end around, they are adjusting their manpower based on need/airframes. Would you prefer they did nothing, burned thru the $$ and furloughed?

Seriously.....you guys have to understand that the goal is to save the jobs in the long run....not save take home pay in the short run. But whatever....go ahead and burn through all that cash and shut the whole thing down even sooner 🤷🏻‍♂️ Uncle Sugar’s bailout isn’t gonna be able to sustain the status quo through all this. Adjustments have to be made.

Wasn't that the intent of the CARES act? All airlines are overstaffed at this point! The Act isn't going to prevent furloughs, they are coming in large numbers. Has any other airline downgraded anyone at this point in an effort to save money?

What happened to "full pay to the last day"? Do you really believe any of this will save jobs? If the flying isn't there come October, the jobs are going away. Regardless of what is done right now!

How is this operating under the assumption? To me this looks like the preparation of a bunch of FOs on the street.

Do you really think that saving cash now is going to protect anyone's job after September if the schedules going forward require reduced staffing?

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pay%20rate

The purpose of requiring companies to give the government historic payroll expense was to determine the level of funding that was distributed. Going from a captain who maxed out their hours out last year to a first officer making reserve guarantee is a substantial reduction in take home pay, but the company didn’t reduce any rates. It’s not always about the spirit of the law, but the actual wording. When the 14th Amendment was passed, the spirit and intent of the law was to give the recently freed slaves the rights of citizenship as a free people born into this country, not as property, as was the case before. Granting anchor babies citizenship never was their intent or within the spirit of the law, but it is within the actual text. I don’t want to start some big political debate on immigration, this is just an example of the spirit vs what the law actually says.

A bunch of pilots from every airline in the country are going to be on the street unless demand miraculously returns in the next 6 months.

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Definition of pay rate: the amount of money workers are paid per hour, week, etc.

When you change someones pay from $75/hr to $42 per hour, you changed their pay rate. No, it wasn't across the board for everyone, but it was a pay rate change for those impacted. Again, please show me where exactly in the act it states "published hourly rates".

Yes, and that will likely happen in October. But the truth is that they are cutting pay rates for some right now, ahead of the date in the CARES act.

Except without the CARES ACT it will be a lot sooner. Again their has yet to be news that XJT is getting anything. He said they were operating under the assumption that they were. My question is how is moving people from the left seat to the right operating under that assumption?
Might want to read the entire discussion before chiming in with a pointless comment. But thanks for the input.

Whoever has the dumpster fire gif animation handy would do well to post it again to keep up the tradition

Not a chance in h3ll.

Regarding downgrades, many airlines will be doing that this summer to set the table for easy furloughs.

If it is determined that it's in violation of the CARES act, they'll simply pay protect the downgrades until 01 Oct. But I bet they try to make it a paycut and see what they can get away with.

Two separate things. The company believes that downgrading someone isn't a pay rate change. They can't do that across the board and they can't furlough at this point, but they are trying to save some money short term by effectively reducing the rate for some employees.

so do you think more than half the pilots only getting min guarantee with no chance at making more money a pay reduction too?

It's always been that way at XJT for reserve pilots. Almost impossible to pick up extra trips. Line holders still have the opportunity to pick up open time or bump reserves off assigned trips and pick up extra flying. And there are a lot of trips in open time right now!

Fine. Burn it down.

There won't be a fire until after September as it stands now. Either way, can you show me a case where saving a company money saved jobs in the long run?

pay rates are still the exact same, what changes is position. Per the cares act they have paid captains “x” and FOs “y” nothing in the cares act says people have to keep current position. They just have to stay on the payroll as a pilot which could be either x or y

I think it's a grey area, weak language which is not surprising since it was a rush job. Your interpretation would be the company's, but unions would disagree, and congress (the house anyway) might agree with the unions.

Does changing someone's position not also by default change someone's pay rate?

Not the union here! They will glady go along with the company on this if they think it would mean keeping their jobs.

ExpressJet is setup for success to weather the storm. Furloughs are unlikely on our side due to the projected demand pickup by fall that will be able to fill our planes, but not 175s, 737s, etc.

Im sorry I had a good laugh at this one. So your argument that XJT will not have furloughs and is primed to survive is bc they fly 50 seaters over bigger planes??? I would explain why this is a dumb stance but I feel like I would be wasting my breath. Come Oct 1 everyone will be hurting and will be affected by this.

Some airlines will be affected less. 50 seaters like the ERJ are profitable with 20 passengers, maybe less. Can a larger a/c be profitable with 20 pax?

come on man......if anything you said was true then ALL that would be flying the month of May and June would be 50 seat jets. Time for a reality check your job is in just as much if not more in danger than everyone else’s.

Kirby said he MIGHT park the 756 fleet and did it.....he said he doesn’t see a path forward for the 50 seat jet(for the recordDL said the same thing in their earnings call).....I would believe him. Some 50s will live but who will fly them? SkyWest has at risk flying which brings economy of scale

Compared to other regionals, XJT made significant cost reductions to reduce risk, i.e. ending the 175 flying and transferred that risk to SkyWest. The CRJ200s will be eliminated. The ERJs have another 10 years of lifespan. We are in a great position to due to our size—not too big and not too small. Larger regionals and majors will see the most pain in downsizing. We downsized in the good times, but now I anticipate we will end up with more opportunities in the months and years ahead.

LoL, look what the cat dragged in... back at it again. Another United guy trying to beat up on the little guy to feel better about his position.

The fact of the matter is nobody is flying in April, May and part of June. The 50 seaters don’t even carry 20 people right now.

Come late May and early June that should hopefully change.

Thing is nobody knows and worrying about it doesn’t help anything. Enjoy the summer and limit your consumption of this website like many should be doing with the old bottle (know it’s difficult).

Agree with some of what you’re saying but nothing is assured for anyone right now.

These 145’s can’t go another 10 yrs. The XR’s maybe have 4-5 yrs.

The 175’s leaving was done “pre-covid”..... and only flying 25 after Mesa ink’ed a deal make a XJT 175 operation unfeasible... Everyone one the 50 seat side will hurt...

Fixed it for you.

There are many things flawed with your argument...
1. The pilot groups of the Big 3 learned from 08’ and made sure a % of flying remained in house. Its upwards of over 70%. It why you see A320s flying to Midland. (So there goes your argument saying your going to steal flying from mainline)
2. When you compare the 145 to the 175 the 145 losses in every category. Distance, Cargo, Seats, pax approval, and maintenance cost, all while having almost an identical breakeven point.
3. (Most Importantly of All) The guy who owns a majority stake in your company has already said TWICE there is no future for 50 seaters and the fleet will be reduced when this is over.

Now in saying all this, I would like to believe that there is a future for XJT and a niche that has to be met with 50 seaters. And 145 trumps the 200. But to say things as dumb as you wont see furloughs or are in a better position then anyone it outlandish. How about worrying about whether you’re getting the Cares Act first and how possible downgrading people might be a disqualification if there is a reduction in pay.

You guys do have random drug tests at XJT, right? If so, you'd better hope your name doesn't get picked!

Those A320s are not flying to small cities like Midland anymore. Mainline will lose most if not all smaller and mid-size cities for the foreseeable future.