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Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337033)
Didn't answer my question. Why aren't people freaking out over Mesaba doing this?
It seems like RAH, XJT, and SKW pilots make up the bulk of the "usuals" in the regional forum and we have to wait less time to hear about those three airlines than for news of any other carrier. If I'm on a trip I generally stay away from the internet and thus don't really hear ANYTHING about any company unless somebody calls me to tell me. |
Originally Posted by ToiletDuck
(Post 337042)
I know my favorite one involves a pool and days of laughing!
...how many freakin' exclamations points do I need to make it to ten characters? |
Originally Posted by ToiletDuck
(Post 337039)
How the hell should I know or care? To each his own.
While we're at it. At XJT, 1st year, we get 4% match for our 401K plus an additional 2.5% contribution from the company. So for a 1st year FO, we get 6.5% contribution from the company for putting in 4%. Do you guys have that additional contribution amount? For a 18-year employee here, we get 6% match plus a 6% contribution from the company. That equals 12% contribution from the company for only putting in 6% = total of 18%! What does RAH give you? That is also an expense I'm sure CAL wanted to get away from. |
Originally Posted by freezingflyboy
(Post 337041)
You sure seem to care an awful lot about the COLA at XJT... There are some guys here who are probably jumping for joy. I'm kinda like "meh...whatever...wish the girlfriend got offered a month off so we could go travel...oh well. Back to my USA Today."
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Originally Posted by POPA
(Post 337043)
I, for one, was unaware that Mesaba was in the same situation.
It seems like RAH, XJT, and SKW pilots make up the bulk of the "usuals" in the regional forum and we have to wait less time to hear about those three airlines than for news of any other carrier. |
Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337023)
Do you know why RAH got XJT flying? It is because they have a cheaper operation. How much do your FO's get paid over there? How much do their FO's get paid on the 170? We have a more costly contract than RAH does, don't tell us they didn't cost CAL less.
Why don't you compare a 5-year 170 FO at RAH to a 5 year DC-9 FO at NW. |
Originally Posted by SharkyBN584
(Post 337049)
I had a long post to respond to this but gave up when I realized that a new hires opinion about my company that they don't even work at means...nothing...
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Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337046)
What does RAH give you?
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Originally Posted by ToiletDuck
(Post 337055)
A job. That beats 18%.
You still didn't answer my question. What does RAH give you for your 401K? |
Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337053)
You gave up because your post would've made absolutely no sense in defending the pay at RAH.
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Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337048)
Look at the size of the Mesaba thread.
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Originally Posted by POPA
(Post 337058)
That 2400-post mammoth? I have a post in there somewhere, but I've forgotten what it was about. Trying to wade through that heap makes my head spin. In the last three pages, there was one mention of something called a TOWOP, but I've no idea what that is. On the other hand, there is an entire thread related to XJTs voluntary furloughs, or whatever it is you crazy kids call them. That is my point: it's easier to get (mis)information about XJT, RAH, or SKW than any other airline in the regional forum.
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Originally Posted by POPA
(Post 337058)
That is my point: it's easier to get (mis)information about XJT, RAH, or SKW than any other airline in the regional forum.
Point is, if you don't work there, you don't know... |
Originally Posted by SharkyBN584
(Post 337057)
No, it would have gone over your head, junior.
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Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337056)
At least we now know your true feelings. Why don't we at XJT reduce our pay 1% below yours and get rid of all these nice extra benefits that we have and then steal your flying.
You still didn't answer my question. What does RAH give you for your 401K? My true feelings? I have no emotional thoughts on any of this. I'm taking nothing personal unlike some. Have all the 401K matching you want but I'd rather have a job. The pilots pay isn't what's costing the company if that's not obvious I don't know what is. |
Originally Posted by ToiletDuck
(Post 337063)
First year nothing, second 2.5%.
My true feelings? I have no emotional thoughts on any of this. I'm taking nothing personal unlike some. Have all the 401K matching you want but I'd rather have a job. The pilots pay isn't what's costing the company if that's not obvious I don't know what is. Why don't you take this attitude to the guys at the Majors and see how much they agree with you? You are as low as a scab. |
Originally Posted by ToiletDuck
(Post 337055)
A job. That beats 18%.
To be honest, if my company is fat on labor I would rather they go about reducing that expense this way, with voluntary "time off", than by just taking an axe to the bottom of the seniority list. I think it really shows some class and caring for your employees to OFFER time off WITH BENNIES (but without pay) to those who want it than by making it mandatory (without pay OR bennies) for those who may not aka a furlough. |
Originally Posted by full reverse
(Post 336647)
As opposed to most cr@p hole operations flying regional jets, XJT actually does care about their people, and no this isn't to mitigate furloughs, it's just to improve the bottom line for a few months and give a few people the chance to take a month or two off, and no COLA's are not mandatory, they usually go quite senior. Most of these COLAs will go to those who want a month to run their other businesses, or travel if they don't need the money. The beauty of working for a decent regional is you have the luxury of taking a month off without going to the poor house, granted the COLAs are only for FOs. Some pilots are looking forward to it, as they have new ones at home and will enjoy the time off. As opposed to non-union airlines, by definition, COLAs are NOT mandatory, those are called furloughs, and XJT is not even considering such a measure. The COLAs offer a win-win, for the company and the pilots.
I know many people would love to see the demise of XJT, especially the bottom sucking CEOs of certain regionals, simply because they can point to XJT and say to their scared pilot groups, "look, see what happens with a good contract, your company will go out of business." If you believe XJT is going out of business, you'll be quite suprised. XJT is going to go through a hard time with 106 dollar oil, as will all the majors. RJET will be fine since according to their 10K, all fuel costs are pass through expenses to the major provider. XJT only has 210 airplanes under such arrangement, leaving 64 airplanes at risk for high fuel prices. For all in the regional industry, you should hope for the success of XJT, as XJTs success will allow for better contracts in the industry. Jet jock: read your FARS, within 90 days no training is required... wait isn't that 3 months... |
I love how, at the regional level, we all know that we live and die by our contracts but yet we act like little girls when someone else comes along and underbid us. It's not our flying. Whine all you want but it's called business.
I laugh because so many of us blindly think pilot pay has everything to do with it when it actually plays such a small part! LOL! |
Toiletduck, please don't tell a bunch of pilots that you enjoy doing their job for less.
What if XJT ALPA wanted to ask for a pay raise in a few years? It would be a tough arguement because we Chautauquas and Mesas that will do our job for less, and flying gets assigned to the lowest bidder, as Contrails reminded.But, i'm sure you know this though right. Don't let RAH pride mix with the fact that we should all be making more money. Just ask someone that flew in the good old days, when wages were liveable before RJs and their bar lowering pilots moved in. We're all guilty, but I am different because I dont have the attitude of settling for less, like some. |
Originally Posted by full reverse
(Post 336943)
Never said it was RAH RAHs CEO, it wasn't, I have not bashed any group by name, in fact I have propped up RJET by quoting the fact that their pass through costs will leave them sitting pretty with high fuel prices, while such fuel prices will greatly affect the bottom line at XJT.
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Originally Posted by JetJock16
(Post 337109)
I love how, at the regional level, we all know that we live and die by our contracts but yet we act like little girls when someone else comes along and underbid us. It's not our flying. Whine all you want but it's called business.
I laugh because so many of us also think pilot pay has everything to do with it when it actually plays such a small part! LOL! |
Originally Posted by freezingflyboy
(Post 337119)
Hows the view from that ivory tower?:rolleyes:
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JJ, it wasn't a retaliatory personal attack. And you can say whatever you want about XJT. Doesn't bother me any. It was more of an observation about the tone and nature of your posts. I read a lot of the threads on here though I may not post and seems like I always see your name popping up as a sage of knowledge about every aspect of the goings on at many of the carriers out there, especially XJT. So take it more as a gentle jab than a kick to the balls. Thats how it was intended.
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Originally Posted by freezingflyboy
(Post 337133)
JJ, it wasn't a retaliatory personal attack. And you can say whatever you want about XJT. Doesn't bother me any. It was more of an observation about the tone and nature of your posts. I read a lot of the threads on here though I may not post and seems like I always see your name popping up as a sage of knowledge about every aspect of the goings on at many of the carriers out there, especially XJT. So take it more as a gentle jab than a kick to the balls. Thats how it was intended.
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Originally Posted by JetJock16
(Post 337128)
...When it comes to one being awarded flying over another then that’s what they call business and business is not personal.
You do realize that basically XJT is shrinking and RAH is growing. A top tier regional is having its employee ranks transfered over to a lower tier than XJT. What makes you think this won't happen to RAH. How is this really different than GoJets? CAL went with the cheaper pilot group to circumvent us at XJT. This is terrible. |
Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337141)
WOW!!!
You do realize that basically XJT is shrinking and RAH is growing. A top tier regional is having its employee ranks transfered over to a lower tier than XJT. What makes you think this won't happen to RAH. How is this really different than GoJets? CAL went with the cheaper pilot group to circumvent us at XJT. This is terrible. As for one being a top tier and the other not, I think that’s the pot calling to kettle black. What do you think XJT did to ASA in LAX? |
Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337033)
Didn't answer my question. Why aren't people freaking out over Mesaba doing this?
XJT on the other hand is losing flying left and right as well as money from a branded operation with load factors of 50-60%. Both are different situations |
Many infractions and warnings so far in this thread. Think before you post. If you have a personal problem with a user, use PM's and keep it off the fourms. If you think a post violates TOS, report it, and let them mods sort it out.
Thanks |
Originally Posted by JetJock16
(Post 337146)
And one day it will happen to RAH just like it will happen to us here at SKW. RAH's lower cost isn't entirely due to their pilot groups blended BS FO rates. I do not agree with it as you do not but I have yet to meet an RAH pilot who likes their FO rates. They want to change them and they are in negotiations to do so.
As for one being a top tier and the other not, I think that’s the pot calling to kettle black. What do you think XJT did to ASA in LAX? |
Jet Jock,
I've quoted RJETs pass through costs, because, like I stated, I read it in their 10K, I haven't read all the 10Ks for all the regionals. And yes I know that most regionals pass the fuel cost on to the major partner, but I can't say for sure if 100% of all their flying is under such arrangement. If you read my first post you will see I referenced the 10K from RJET, a publication they make because they are public and the SEC requires them to do so. Hence, I was making my point that XJT was going to go through some hard times, because all their fuel costs ARE NOT pass through. Specifically on the 59 jets (I mistakenly quoted 64 jets before, but 10 of the DAL Connx jets have pass through costs, as read in the XJT 10K) that don't have pass through fuel costs. |
Originally Posted by JetJock16
(Post 337146)
As for one being a top tier and the other not, I think that’s the pot calling to kettle black. What do you think XJT did to ASA in LAX?
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Originally Posted by JetJock16
(Post 337146)
...I have yet to meet an RAH pilot who likes their FO rates. They want to change them and they are in negotiations to do so.
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Originally Posted by de727ups
(Post 337154)
Many infractions and warnings so far in this thread. Think before you post. If you have a personal problem with a user, use PM's and keep it off the fourms. If you think a post violates TOS, report it, and let them mods sort it out.
Thanks |
I hope every thing works out for express jet, i have several friends there and one of them don't have a degree to fall back on...
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Similar ?.....are you high.......Now if XJT had started a company and underbid and awarded the flying to the other company that would be GOJETish.....
Another company bidding for and getting awarded flying is not like GO Jet at all.... Hulas started a company to fly aircraft his TSA pilots wouldnt fly...... these situations are not even similar. |
Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337165)
Never said they didn't like it. They could at least admit why the flying was awarded to RAH instead of XJT. At least saying they are sorry for their management undercutting a higher paid pilot group. I would apologize to any major for taking their flying.
Anyway, I'm curious how long you've been in the 121 world... Secondly I was at TSA when GoJets went down, and what RAH did to XJet isn't similar at all. By comparing them, you eliminate any credibility you have when talking about something else. GoJets is what is called an Alter Ego, they were created for the expressed purpose of undermining an already existing union contract. RAH, I can assure, existed long before their first airplane was painted in CAL paint. The reason RAH got CAL flying may be they are cheaper than XJet, but the MAIN reason it didn't stay at XJet is because they want to diversify their routes among many carriers. FYI, they'll probably want to add another one if they get the chance for the same reason. United, Delta, UsAir, and NW are all doing the same thing. |
Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337198)
It was awarded because RAH costs less. Very similar to what GoJets did, no question about it.
But, don't worry that a really quality regional is losing its flying because we have really good benefits. It's actually really good for us pilots that this is happening to XJT. Your attitude is the same as scab. To bad the decent guys at RAH don't get on here and tell you to zip it. |
Originally Posted by ToiletDuck
(Post 337055)
A job. That beats 18%.
The pilot group that negotiated the contract under which you have a "job" did pretty good for you. Especially when you consider the climate it was done under, the fact that your biggest source of revenue was a CH. 11 legacy, it was a vast improvement compared to what they had prior, etc. I hope for your sake and everybody else at shuttletaquapublic , the guys fighting for the new contract don't have the mentality that RAH gives you a "job", and nothing more. |
Originally Posted by de727ups
(Post 337154)
Many infractions and warnings so far in this thread. Think before you post. If you have a personal problem with a user, use PM's and keep it off the fourms. If you think a post violates TOS, report it, and let them mods sort it out.
Thanks |
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