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How long was this before all the deleted posts?
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If it hasn't been said yet, folks should know RAH offered COLAs at Chautauqua in the fall of 2005.
The sky isn't falling...YET. |
Originally Posted by reelbigchair
(Post 337202)
The reason RAH got CAL flying may be they are cheaper than XJet, but the MAIN reason it didn't stay at XJet is because they want to diversify their routes among many carriers.
I'm not saying RAH guys are bad, I'm just saying don't try and act like taking our flying was just the "name of the game". It is hurting a better paid pilot group. Get over yourself. If I was in your shoes I would not be defending XJT loss to RAH at all. All this will lead to is XJT maybe having to take consesions and taking someone else's flying, because we now have less block hours for our pilot staff. Now do you see how bad this can get? I only hope we take Mesa's flying out of IAD and ORD, because, that sir would be a step in the right direction. Not like XJT flying going to RAH. We can all cheer if that happens. |
Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337023)
Do you know why RAH got XJT flying? It is because they have a cheaper operation. How much do your FO's get paid over there? How much do their FO's get paid on the 170? We have a more costly contract than RAH does, don't tell us they didn't cost CAL less.
Why don't you compare a 5-year 170 FO at RAH to a 5 year DC-9 FO at NW. |
Originally Posted by G-Dog
(Post 337271)
You are not educated. First of all, those rates were negotiated when 175s where not even a thought. Get over yourself. If you are and X-Jet employee, you giving your co-workers a bad name.
Last I checked we negotiate when we get new aircraft. Not fly bigger ones at old rates |
Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337274)
Get over myself, how about you get over yourself? You give the guys at RAH a bad name. Employees at XJT are losing flying because of our hard fought and really good pay contract (in terms of other regionals). Don't give me gripe sir, the only uneducated person is you.
Last I checked we negotiate when we get new aircraft. Not fly bigger ones at old rates Do you know the circumstances surrounding the CHQ 2003 CBA? Do you know what the CHQ contract looked like before it? Do you know how big the company was then, vs. how it is now? Until you know the answers to the questions above, you will be terribly misinformed on the topic. You aren't losing flying because of your pilot contract, you're losing flying because mother CAL wanted to diversify their regional feed at the first possible moment... |
Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337274)
Get over myself, how about you get over yourself?
This is CLASSIC... talk about uneducated. I don't see your co-workers chiming in to defend your poor arguments. I hope that is because you are swimming in XJET's kool aid hiring pool, quit crying |
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
(Post 337280)
I don't work for either RAH or XJT
|
Originally Posted by HookEm
(Post 337285)
This is CLASSIC... talk about uneducated. I don't see your co-workers chiming in to defend your poor arguments.
I hope that is because you are swimming in XJET's kool aid hiring pool, quit crying |
It had nothing to do with pilot contracts and everything to do with CAL wanting to diversify so XJT didn't have a strong arm on CAL. It sucks but thats what happened.
|
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
(Post 337280)
I don't work for either RAH or XJT, but as an observer with no dog in the fight I can tell you for a FACT that you are terribly misinformed about why things are happening the way they are at either company.
Do you know the circumstances surrounding the CHQ 2003 CBA? Do you know what the CHQ contract looked like before it? Do you know how big the company was then, vs. how it is now? Until you know the answers to the questions above, you will be terribly misinformed on the topic. You aren't losing flying because of your pilot contract, you're losing flying because mother CAL wanted to diversify their regional feed at the first possible moment... |
Originally Posted by Superpilot92
(Post 337290)
It had nothing to do with pilot contracts and everything to do with CAL wanting to diversify so XJT didn't have a strong arm on CAL. It sucks but thats what happened.
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Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337294)
CAL diversified BECAUSE RAH was cheaper. Do you think CAL is paying more now that RAH is doing their flying?
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Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337294)
CAL diversified BECAUSE RAH was cheaper. Do you think CAL is paying more now that RAH is doing their flying?
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I'll start over since this is getting blown way out of proportion.
I do not hold ill-will to the pilots at RAH. I am just trying to point out how a very good pilot group at XJT is getting swindled out their jobs because CAL found a cheaper way to do it. This is not the pilots fault at RAH, this is mostly CAL and RAH management taking advantage of a cheaper contract at RAH to get rid of a more expensive contract at XJT. You guys are acting like I don't know this industry, because I am new. I turned down a couple regionals to go to XJT. If we don't recognize this, it will just get worse. I feel bad for the guys at Eagle because American is going to try and do the same thing to the Eagle guys that CAL did to the XJT guys. Get rid of your expensive regional and slowly suck away their flying to cheaper operations to save another buck or two. Stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm very informed on the economics of this, it seems like some people just want to ignore what is happening here. As for my job I'm not worried. I think attrition will run its course, and if I some how get furloughed, I have other jobs lined up I can make more money at, so I am fine. I worry about my friends here that have kids and no degree, they will be the ones hurt, at least show sympathy to them. |
Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337305)
I'll start over since this is getting blown way out of proportion.
I do not hold ill-will to the pilots at RAH. I am just trying to point out how a very good pilot group at XJT is getting swindled out their jobs because CAL found a cheaper way to do it. This is not the pilots fault at RAH, this is mostly CAL and RAH management taking advantage of a cheaper contract at RAH to get rid of a more expensive contract at XJT. You guys are acting like I don't know this industry, because I am new. I turned down a couple regionals to go to XJT. If we don't recognize this, it will just get worse. I feel bad for the guys at Eagle because American is going to try and do the same thing to the Eagle guys that CAL did to the XJT guys. Get rid of your expensive regional and slowly suck away their flying to cheaper operations to save another buck or two. Stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm very informed on the economics of this, it seems like some people just want to ignore what is happening here. As for my job I'm not worried. I think attrition will run its course, and if I some how get furloughed, I have other jobs lined up I can make more money at, so I am fine. I worry about my friends here that have kids and no degree, they will be the ones hurt, at least show sympathy to them. |
Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337305)
I am just trying to point out how a very good pilot group at XJT is getting swindled out their jobs because CAL found a cheaper way to do it...
I'm very informed on the economics of this, it seems like some people just want to ignore what is happening here. How are you informed on the economics of this? If you were "informed" of the economics, you wouldn't be so defensive...It's business. It's a capitalist economy. XJET (and Eagle) are not owed anything. |
The by-product of a successful pilot contract is that if you have industry leading pay - someone else is working for less.
Now, think about that in the context of pay for departure agreements. Regional labor getting whipsawed and you attack each other? Amazing. Pattern collective bargaining only works when the bottom labor groups leapfrog each other to set a new high mark that raises the average pay. As the industry enters another down cycle, forums like this one can (for the first time) provide transparency of issues in near real time across company boundaries. The industry is primed to real ugly, real fast. The question is to we fight each other over marketing agreements which line pilots have little or no control. Or, do we collectively support each other in the pattern bargaining process? For those pilots about to endure your first economic down cycle, get ready, it's eye-watering. It's doubly so when your fighting fellow line pilots (regardless of the uniform). And people ask why we don't have political or religion forums here :D |
Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337305)
...
I do not hold ill-will to the pilots at RAH. I am just trying to point out how a very good pilot group at XJT is getting swindled out their jobs because CAL found a cheaper way to do it. This is not the pilots fault at RAH, this is mostly CAL and RAH management taking advantage of a cheaper contract at RAH to get rid of a more expensive contract at XJT. You guys are acting like I don't know this industry, because I am new. I turned down a couple regionals to go to XJT. If we don't recognize this, it will just get worse. I feel bad for the guys at Eagle because American is going to try and do the same thing to the Eagle guys that CAL did to the XJT guys. Get rid of your expensive regional and slowly suck away their flying to cheaper operations to save another buck or two. Stop telling me I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm very informed on the economics of this, it seems like some people just want to ignore what is happening here. As for my job I'm not worried. I think attrition will run its course, and if I some how get furloughed, I have other jobs lined up I can make more money at, so I am fine. I worry about my friends here that have kids and no degree, they will be the ones hurt, at least show sympathy to them. |
Originally Posted by freezingflyboy
(Post 337338)
Who lost their job? I don't know of anyone here at XJT who lost their job because of CAL's contract with RAH.
My buddy wanted XJT badly, moved to IAH and worked his butt off to get in. He got interviews at RAH and XJT. Unfortunately the company he really wanted to work for is bleeding, because of lost flying, and he had to make the decision to go to RAH. I don't blame him, it's out of his control. I find it funny that people think I am whining about losing flying here at XJT. I'm fine, I don't think my job is in jeopardy, I'm just worried with the way a really good company such as XJT is getting sacked for treating us decently. While there is nothing us pilots can do about it, the least you can do is to not bash me for pointing this out. I can only pray RAH goes through contract negotiations and gets at least 10% higher pay than us at XJT, so we can do the same for our next round. Otherwise XJT will continue to bleed and we will have to give up concessions which will just reverse this trend in a negative way for everyone else. By the way, I vote Republican, proud to have voted twice for Bush, and will continue to do so and no it has absolutely nothing to do with his views on faith or abortion (none of which drove me to vote for him). Just want to make that clear so no one thinks I am a bleeding heart liberal who thinks only for myself and complains about why life isn't fair. I will accept hardships and just find another way to fight for a way to make a living on my own. Its the only way I can live every day knowing I didn't have to take the easy way. |
Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337402)
I guess that have come off a little different than I intended. In a weird and round about way, when XJT is shrinking because of RAH or anyone else growing, than in a sense "someone" loses a job at XJT. I guess you could think it as the guys we currently have in the hiring pool that have passed on RAH for months now, will more than likely have to wait at least 4-6 more months before they "may" be given a chance to start training.
My buddy wanted XJT badly, moved to IAH and worked his butt off to get in. He got interviews at RAH and XJT. Unfortunately the company he really wanted to work for is bleeding, because of lost flying, and he had to make the decision to go to RAH. I don't blame him, it's out of his control. I find it funny that people think I am whining about losing flying here at XJT. I'm fine, I don't think my job is in jeopardy, I'm just worried with the way a really good company such as XJT is getting sacked for treating us decently. While there is nothing us pilots can do about it, the least you can do is to not bash me for pointing this out. I can only pray RAH goes through contract negotiations and gets at least 10% higher pay than us at XJT, so we can do the same for our next round. Otherwise XJT will continue to bleed and we will have to give up concessions which will just reverse this trend in a negative way for everyone else. By the way, I vote Republican, proud to have voted twice for Bush, and will continue to do so and no it has absolutely nothing to do with his views on faith or abortion (none of which drove me to vote for him). Just want to make that clear so no one thinks I am a bleeding heart liberal who thinks only for myself and complains about why life isn't fair. I will accept hardships and just find another way to fight for a way to make a living on my own. Its the only way I can live every day knowing I didn't have to take the easy way. Now I understand why you talk the way you do...........................:D |
Originally Posted by keiundraj
(Post 337409)
Now I understand why you talk the way you do...........................:D
sometimes I wonder the same thing |
Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337411)
;)
sometimes I wonder the same thing |
Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337402)
I guess that have come off a little different than I intended. In a weird and round about way, when XJT is shrinking because of RAH or anyone else growing, than in a sense "someone" loses a job at XJT. I guess you could think it as the guys we currently have in the hiring pool that have passed on RAH for months now, will more than likely have to wait at least 4-6 more months before they "may" be given a chance to start training.
My buddy wanted XJT badly, moved to IAH and worked his butt off to get in. He got interviews at RAH and XJT. Unfortunately the company he really wanted to work for is bleeding, because of lost flying, and he had to make the decision to go to RAH. I don't blame him, it's out of his control. I find it funny that people think I am whining about losing flying here at XJT. I'm fine, I don't think my job is in jeopardy, I'm just worried with the way a really good company such as XJT is getting sacked for treating us decently. While there is nothing us pilots can do about it, the least you can do is to not bash me for pointing this out. I can only pray RAH goes through contract negotiations and gets at least 10% higher pay than us at XJT, so we can do the same for our next round. Otherwise XJT will continue to bleed and we will have to give up concessions which will just reverse this trend in a negative way for everyone else. By the way, I vote Republican, proud to have voted twice for Bush, and will continue to do so and no it has absolutely nothing to do with his views on faith or abortion (none of which drove me to vote for him). Just want to make that clear so no one thinks I am a bleeding heart liberal who thinks only for myself and complains about why life isn't fair. I will accept hardships and just find another way to fight for a way to make a living on my own. Its the only way I can live every day knowing I didn't have to take the easy way. EDITED to avoid hijack. Please return to your regulary scheduled programming. |
Originally Posted by freezingflyboy
(Post 337417)
Christ, I hope you wouldn't blame your friend for going to RAH! That'd be pretty sheisty. One of my best friends from college is at RAH and we hang out all the time. Not once have we come to fisticuffs because he "stole my flying". I'm sorry to hear about your friend but to be honest, I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for the guys soaking in the pool or still hoping for an interview. Personally, if I was trying to get on with a regional right now I wouldn't come to XJT. Don't get me wrong, I love it here and wouldn't undo it. But there are far better opportunities out there for a prospective new hire. Now, if I was some UFO, you're damn right I'd be worried cause I'll be the first one out the door if we do furlough and I also will be the one clinging to the bottom of a reserve or relief line the longest.
I didn't bash you. I merely recommended that you get your facts straight and avoid the personal attacks in the interest of representing XJT. Some of what you've posted here has been off base at best and in some cases just plain wrong. To be honest it made me cringe when you called RAH pilots scabs. Don't know if that post got deleted or not but I would recommend you become more familiar with the definition of that word. Not a label to be thrown around lightly in this industry. I hope so too, man. To be fair, I think you are getting ahead of yourself. These reductions are not just because of CAL's deal with RAH. There has been a pullback in the entire market for 50-seat lift since oil began its steady march towards lunacy. Has nothing to do with who is flying for what mainline operator and everything to do with the cost of flying 50-seat jets over short segments. Unfortunately, all of XJT's exposure is in the 50-seat market so of course this is going to be felt more than a carrier operating larger airplanes. Again, just business and very much above our paygrade. Ummm...ok. Not sure of the relevance here but thanks for sharing. God, I hope not!:eek: I will NEVER EVER EVER EVER understand why that is something people use as a metric to decide who they want to RUN THE COUNTRY! Are you ever going to have an abortion? If your personal beliefs are against it then my guess is that your answer is a resounding "NO". So what does it matter to you if it's legal or not? I didn't mean to get off on a political tangent...just one of those things that gets under my skin. I won't even get into the religion discussion... nice logic. End of hijack. |
Originally Posted by freezingflyboy
(Post 337417)
Some of what you've posted here has been off base at best and in some cases just plain wrong. To be honest it made me cringe when you called RAH pilots scabs. Don't know if that post got deleted or not but I would recommend you become more familiar with the definition of that word. Not a label to be thrown around lightly in this industry.
Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337046)
While we're at it. At XJT, 1st year, we get 4% match for our 401K plus an additional 2.5% contribution from the company. So for a 1st year FO, we get 6.5% contribution from the company for putting in 4%. Do you guys have that additional contribution amount? For a 18-year employee here, we get 6% match plus a 6% contribution from the company. That equals 12% contribution from the company for only putting in 6% = total of 18%!
What does RAH give you? That is also an expense I'm sure CAL wanted to get away from.
Originally Posted by ToiletDuck
(Post 337055)
A job. That beats 18%.
Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337056)
At least we now know your true feelings. Why don't we at XJT reduce our pay 1% below yours and get rid of all these nice extra benefits that we have and then steal your flying.
You still didn't answer my question. What does RAH give you for your 401K?
Originally Posted by ToiletDuck
(Post 337063)
First year nothing, second 2.5%.
My true feelings? I have no emotional thoughts on any of this. I'm taking nothing personal unlike some. Have all the 401K matching you want but I'd rather have a job.
Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337063)
wow, no wonder you guys were able to take our flying.
Why don't you take this attitude to the guys at the Majors and see how much they agree with you? You are as low as a scab. |
Originally Posted by freezingflyboy
(Post 337417)
I won't even get into the religion discussion...
I may not be a religious person but I trust someone who believes in a God over someone that doesn't believe in right or wrong. I'm sure there are some good atheists out there, I just had a really bad experience with one that tried to push her beliefs on me. Go figure... South Park has a great episode on this :D end of hijack |
Originally Posted by tpersuit
(Post 337428)
I dated an atheist once and it felt like I was dating a religious nut!
I may not be a religious person but I trust someone who believes in a God over someone that doesn't believe in right or wrong. I'm sure there are some good atheists out there, I just had a really bad experience with one that tried to push her beliefs on me. Go figure... South Park has a great episode on this :D end of hijack end of hijack....... I mean it this time. |
Originally Posted by Deez340
(Post 337422)
"Are you going to murder someone? No? So what does it matter if it's legal or not."
nice logic. End of hijack. |
This thread has nothing useful to contribute to APC.
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