Expressjet 3808
 

Anybody know these guys? We were headed right for takeoff at EWR this morning with frost all over the wings. Other jets getting deiced at the gate. We just pushback and go!
Full of pax with a FA jumpseating in the back.
Can't believe it as we approach the runway she and I are freaking out. I am in the last row seat 24A so I grab the intercom and ask if they planned on deicing.
We then slow down and sit for awhile. Another 360 and we taxi around awhile then find a place for a deice truck to come spray the wings.
No PA ever made.

Comments?

Can I ask why you posted on a public forum rather than ask the crew when you got off the flight?

..................

Sorry man beat you to it :)

My comment is that if you're truly concerned going through your union's Pro Stands committee is a much more professional way to go about things than tattling on an internet message board.

It'll make it's way back one way or another.. I don't see an issue.. If you can't preflight properly you deserve to be embarrassed

You, as a passenger, called the cockpit in a sterile environment to tell the crew what to do? And they let you stay on the plane to IAD? Wow..

You made that big a deal for frost? Are you joking? You want a helmet and a life vest to wear too. Call the crew when the wing is falling off, not for a smidge of frost.

Would you have rather read about an emb going off the end of a runway in Newark this morning?

He said the wing was covered in frost

How thick? Enless it's incased in 1/4in thich frost , its not going to do anything but look pretty.

I mean if its bad enough to call the cockpit thats some half ass walkaround then.

Remember this? deicing the russian way.flv - YouTube

I think the Mods should remove flight specific details on posts like these. Even if the OP was correct and his actions just saved lives, we can't be calling out one another on public forums. Otherwise we'll be identifying crews for all manner of nonsense open to variable interpretation.

This isn't helpful, even if totally legit.

Mods - what do you think?

Classy man.

I watched 3 delta planes blast off with frost this week too. Big whoop.

Expressjet flies aircraft with 24 rows?

Shouldn't this be posted in the Tool of the Day thread?

United row numbering skips several numbers at the exit row.

It was me............

Gotta love the russians. If you've ever had a "what if I did this" question chances are the russians have attempted it.

Based on your comment under Position - I don't believe you:)

Foiled again! I'll never get a Check Airman letter:(

IMO, APC is not an appropriate venue to discuss this. The OP notified the crew of the perceived problem at the time of occurrence and it was corrected to everyone's satisfaction. Done deal. Take up any future discussion through closed channels such as pro standards.

Doesn't matter how thick it is. Regs are very clear and very black and white concerning contaminated control surfaces.

exactly..

what if the FAA was onboard in the back and they took off? do they think they'll agree it looks pretty?

That's what i would have. I'd rather get off than go fly with contaminated wings anyway.

Might do the CA some good to explain to the CP exactly WHY he kicked me off :rolleyes:

We don't ever allow the identification of crew members by name to the public, for obvious security reasons.

But we don't have a policy such that you can't reference specific flight numbers...we do it all the time (see the SWA wrong-airport thread in the Majors section).

It's up to the OP to decide whether this is the best way to deal with this sort of thing.

If he had asked me in advance I would have advised him not to post in this manner because it's going to get back to management...unless that's what he wanted. But it's way too late to shut the barn door now.

But I'll admit it's a bit disturbing that US 121 pilots are still flying with ice...intentionally or accidentally. I consider it non-trivial and is certainly a legit point of discussion on APC (maybe without the flight number next time).

And you know emphatically that the plan was to take off without getting deiced how?

I've never deiced at ewr before, but I know many places spray down at the end of the runway to minimize taxi time to departure. Perhaps the pilots didn't feel getting deiced merited a pa, completely the captain's call.

Why do you want to know the pilots' names anyway?
Planning to give them a talking to?
Are you an express jet pilot?
Do you know what parameters require deicing per their ops specs?
Was the frost in question thicker than 1/4 inch?

Absolutely.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yQd3mOQUVtU

For all the "professionals" saying just a little frost is no big deal, a quick review of 121.629 (b) might be in order.

Also, as demonstrated by the Russian airbus clip, don't forget that everyone is a photojournalist these days and the recordings they make are pretty solid evidence which would be of considerable interest to your company, the FAA and maybe even the NTSB.

Are we talking about frost like what you get after fueling? Or is this "frost" small amounts of ice and snow?
Frost from recent fueling wont be an issue, but if they were sitting there with snow/ice actually on the top of the wings my comment below may be appropriate. However, if its really, really cold most fresh snow will blow off at just a few knots. But if its wet(er) snow, then it may stick.

As a pilot, or flight attendant or knowledgeable passenger, someone should have said something. USair 405 and Air Ontario 1363 crashed for the same reasons. Snow and ice accumulation after incorrect or lack of deicing procedures. A few of the passengers noticed the wing contamination but failed to say anything. One was a captain from another airline but he didnt want to upset the flying crew. Could have saved alot of lives if he nutted up and said something... At least make sure the FA tells the captain there is a safety issue brought up by a passenger.

Fair enough - I guess... My point is we have only the OP's word on what happened. And this could end up being a very uncomfortable situation for this crew because of it. In other-words, anyone can come on here spouting anything, basically naming names with flight numbers, dates, and city pairs. Next thing you know, someone's career is in jeopardy over what a single subjective source spouts, not because of any legitimate objective fact based investigation.

This OP is all about looking like a hero. An intelligent person would have phoned pro-standards, or even spoke to the XJT CP directly. And then, like you said, for the benefit of all, talked about it in general terms on this board.

What he did is basically defamation. And I call into question his interpretation of the situation based on his very questionable judgement in posting about it. I wasn't there, I don't know, and that's kinda the point.

In the case of WN landing on the wrong runway. Well that's irrefutable, so I see it as different.

In America, planes de-ice
In Soviet Russia, ice de-planes.

Expressjet 3808
 

I understand the safety factor...but on APF? We have to be more professional than this folks. All conversations are open to the public. This could have been handled differently...

Here at Skywest the feds knowing allowed an airplane to takeoff with frost on the wings. The Fed actually took his own pictures! Then subsequently tried to suspend both crewmember's licenses when they returned to SLC from the outstation.

If you fly the public expect scrutiny. If you play fast and loose you might get called out. There is nothing stopping a informed passenger calling a news station and blasting the story. If indeed the crew intended to deice this matter will go nowhere but maybe the OP provided some positive stimulus to the crew to wake up and realize their responsibility. Posting on here maybe be indiscreet but taking off with frost covered wings is reckless.

I agree as well. This is why others and myself have asked for clarification on the amount of "frost" from the OP. So we can clarify what or even if there was an issue.
Because, "frost" to me is just like the little frozen condensation left after fueling, anymore than that is "ice" IMO. But someone else might think of lots of actual ice obstructing flow and hence a severe safety issue.
Either way, listing and airline, and flight number on APC or any public forum may get this crew in trouble. It would have been better to say something like "on a regional jet yesterday, XXXXXX happened prior to takeoff, is this an issue?" and just see what people think about it.
No need to cause a panic, and possible damage this crews career over what is likely a misunderstanding by a passenger.

There are numerous established channels to call somebody out in a professional manner, most notably Pro Stands.

Posting it on APF is inappropriate for the same reason it's inappropriate for a dunk guy to argue with his wife on the front lawn of his trailer park.

The crew wouldn't get in trouble because the passenger doesn't know what they are talking about. The crew might get in trouble if they were being careless and carelessness in aviation is deadly. With stakes that high lets not promote keeping mistakes in the shadows.

I remember reading a thread months ago...I think by a FedEx pilot who observed a foreign (Asian if I recall) airline taking off without deicing while on a deadhead. Every reply was vilifying the flight crew and demanding they never fly on them again.

EWR doesn't deice anywhere near the runways, they do it near the terminals. You'd think someone riding in the back (a crewmember no less) would be a little bit aware of what was going on.

Just think how the replies would be in this thread if this wasn't a US crew represented by the almighty ALPA.

I'm sure they were going to de ice, who said has to be at the gate. No PA omg the nerve!....your welcome for the ride!