L-ASA (ExpressJet CRJ side)
 

The current ExpressJet threads are a mixture of information that can be confusing and/or misleading.

For those who don't know, ExpressJet is currently composed of two completely separate labor groups. It is the result of a failing/failed merger attempt. L-XJT is the larger side and operates the ERJ. L-ASA operates the CRJ. Pilots/FA's cannot currently bid the other aircraft. Seniority lists, labor contracts, operations, mechanics, etc., is all separate, but the airline operates under one name. The name is from L-XJT and the logo is from L-ASA. Therefore it makes sense to have separate threads to help keep the information specific to one side separate from the other.

So here it is. Hopefully this will help.

Is it true that pilots were hired between 2007 and 2011 at L asa? Does that mean that the facebook page for XJT is not telling the truth when they say a big jump in upgrade time will occur sometime in the future because they did not hire 3 or 4 years during that time period? Are the upgrade times on the L asa side over 9 years right now? Is it true that you will only be paid 65 hours instead of the standard 75 hours during training?

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the significance of the "L" preceding each labor group name? Why not just refer to them as XJT and ASA?

Expressjet is the company that currently exists. If you fly on a Delta CRJ, it's operated by Expressjet under the Acey call sign. The L means legacy when referring to each former carrier's aircraft or pilot group or contract. So, that same CRJ is an L-ASA CRJ operating as XJT under the L-ASA contract. A United 145 is XJT operated as XJT under a L-XJT contract.

I was hired in March of 08 by ASA, have not upgraded. I was in the 2nd to last class of 08. No idea about initial training pay. The 9 year upgrade could to go down to 7ish here next year with so many senior FOs bailing but who really knows.

I was a 2007 hire but left L-ASA and made a lateral move a couple years ago.

I've heard (and met) some of the pilots who got the "kinda sorta" upgrade, where they got the fourth stripe but kept flying from the right seat. Is this program still active? Are these "kinda sorta" captains flying much in the left seat today? The one "kinda sorta CA" I ran into last summer was wearing the fourth stripe but flying a trip as an FO. This pilot was hired in mid-2007 which suggests the current "most junior CRJ CA" posting on the APC airline profile for XJT is inaccurate as it currently shows 3/2007 as the most junior CA at L-ASA. (sheesh, that's about a 10 year upgrade!!!!)

There was no hiring in 2009 at all. There is 16 people hired in 2010, 38 hired in 2008, and 30 between the most junior captain and the last 2007 hire date. Upgrade time is currently at 9 years, not to much over. Training pay is 65 hours of guarantee at full wages, with going to 75 after completion of OE.

Most junior captain that I see, without digging too much into it is a 9/07 hire date. They do have a set max of 45 per month that bid as FO's, but retain their captain pay to sit LCR as a FO. You're also paid continuous tax free per diem for the entire month as well, which is a bump in pay for them too.

The union has also proposed new FO pay scales to the company. A 4th year FO will be paid as a 3rd year captain, 5th year FO as a 2nd year captain, and so on until 8th year FO is paid a 5th year captain rate of $73/hr on the 7/9. This would be a large pay bump for 4th year and up FO's.

Before the trolls hop on. I think you meant 4th year FO would be paid 1st year CA pay. Great proposal but doubt management (Inc.) would be on board with it.

That is correct, my bad and thanks for catching it. If I could update my post, I would. But here it is in a better format on the 7/9:

4th Year FO...1st Year CA
5th Year FO...2st Year CA
6th Year FO...3st Year CA
7th Year FO...4st Year CA
8th Year FO...5st Year CA

So what you are telling me is the recruiting department is lying about not hiring anyone during that time period.

OK, I'll bite. How did you catch wind of this?

ASA hired during that time. I have no idea what ExpressJet did. We started our "merge" in August of 2010, it was the day I came back from furlough.

Not really a lie. That hiring period they are speaking about is for the ERJ, not the CRJ. As far as recruiting goes, they are unsure of someone is going to the CRJ or ERJ, so they will state a period that they know of on their own side (may be an ERJ pilot who responded as the recruiter).

I was told as a volunteer of pilot-2-pilot, in addition it was on the MEC site for a short period of time. So this is a fact, not just a rumor. Waiting for the company response.

The union is meeting with the company on Monday to lay out the framework for a new contract for the CRJ side.

Let me post the entire thing. I know the ERJ side is not upgrading and allowing newly-upgraded captains to voluntarily fly as Fos. It sounds like someone is taking the two different sides and trying to cherry pick the best case scenarios out of the two airlines. This sounds very much like a lie and intentionally done to get people to get into the airline, either crj or erj.


Also, if what you say is true about the hiring during those years, then the CRJ side will not have a major drop in upgrade time anytime in the future. That would only happen on the ERJ side with the 10 year upgrade dropping down to a 7 year upgrade that the recruiters are talking about.

Just doing some rough numbers here after yesterdays Memo from SkyWest Inc:

Expecting to remove 43% of L-ASA fleet in 2017. Therefore, 43% of L-ASA Seniority List could be sent packing:

The potential fallout:

Bottom 43% of L-ASA seniority list (roughly 86% of the three stripers on property) are now "bye bye!"

Top* 14% of First Officers at L-ASA will keep their jobs

Bottom* 43% of Captains at L-ASA will downgrade

Top* 57% of Captains at L-ASA will keep their seat.

* - Assuming a straight 50/50 split on the seniority list between CA and FO. But ASA has a large group of super senior FO's on the company wide seniority list who'll remain in the right seat. This will help "soon to be" super junior CA's keep their left seat.



In case you want to join me in looking back fondly on the promises they've made the last year to naive newbs joining the 121 world:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6u2DgNJoUA

"Make the Smart Choice for your future, make ExpressJet your next step."

Your numbers are a little off. It's more like 31% of the pilot group. Take into account attrition, and it will be more like 20%.

I'm just going off what APC reports: 46 CR2s and 61 stretch RJ's. 46/107 = 43% of fleet "bye bye"

I can only assume total pilot staffing will also drop by 43% as they shift staffing levels for 2018. Hence the numbers posted above. I'd love to know where your 31% came from.

And you're correct, there will be MASSIVE attrition now. But I wouldn't count on it coming from the lifer CA's who occupy the top 28% of the seniority list who'll keep their CA seat when 2018 arrives.

Are you counting the 12 700s going to be operated for AA? I assume they are coming from the endless 700's Skywest has coming off the United side.

Bigger problem is L-XJT side is also reducing it's fleet. So question will all newhire classes and interviews, job fairs be canceled..??..

I believe WMU's numbers are a little closer to the truth. I've heard that there will be thirty-two CRJ-200's leaving from Delta flying for L-ASA. I haven't checked the APC numbers, but you're more than likely assuming that all of the CRJ-200's listed were flying for Delta. That is inaccurate. Twelve (or thirteen) along with a spare are flying for American. Subtract those from the forty-six number and you get closer to thirty-two.

Some are coming from the Horizon 700's that were coming offline from the DL flying. I think there were around a half-dozen of these.

Didn't see anything in the SkyWest Inc memo that said it was DL CR2's being removed, it only said ExpressJet CR2s. So, I assume all CR2s and the AA op will be replaced with CR7s.

That is correct. That was announced previously. Those CR2's will be replaced with CR7's on a one-for-one basis with an additional CR2 in DFW for EAS (not sure where all of the CR7's are coming from -- some additional will be added from an unknown source at this time). But that won't equate to a net loss like the loss of the DL CR2's. Should be a net loss of around 32 CR2's system wide.

Would anyone take a second and response to the post, has all hiring at ExpressJet/ASA come to complete stop?

No. In fact as of yesterday balls to the wall.

O.K. thanks for responding, but I am slightly confused. A few posts back, someone mentioned something about mass attrition, if they are getting rid of the 200's and folks are leaving, because of the reduction of airplanes, why the need for increased hiring? Also, with ASA getting rid of planes, just how much of an issue are they going to have recruiting folks?

I can't speak for the poster, but I think he was remarking in sarcastic hyperbole.

All bets are off at this point. The only news is that we are losing 37 CRJ-200's. No news yet on aircraft to replace them. That being the case, it is highly unlikely that there is any need for new pilots. No official word from the hiring department though.


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I didn't mean to come across as sarcastic, it just one person is saying it's balls to the walls, and you are saying you do not think there is going to be a need for new hires. Sorry!

Sorry. I wasn't saying that you (New Guy 007) were being sarcastic. I thought the other poster (Bozo) was being sarcastic.

My assessment is that with the only news being reported is that we are losing aircraft, it doesn't make sense to hire. It's just what I have deduced. OTOH, I am just a cog in the system. I don't know anything that is privileged information.

That being said, I just got a text from a friend that said the hiring department was informed to keep hiring. So there's that...


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O.K. thanks, appreciate it!

No sir I was not. Do you get all of your news from one place? I do not.

So you spoke before checking. I check before I speak.

I said I wasn't speaking for you. I was trying to interpret what you said. There weren't any specifics, so I had to guess. Not trying to pick a fight, but your post was vague.


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To support Bozo, confirmed from multiple sources that hiring is going full steam ahead, and looking at increase their hiring efforts in 2017.

Define full steam?? Is that 6 a class or 70? How big are ASA classes?

No clue. This prelim for the current position notice also shows 4 upgrades on it as well.

Only because they know it's about to be a mass exodus. They are just trying to stay ahead of it,that's all.Loosing aircraft with no replacement means less pilots needed.......period.

It's really sad to see what has become of AWAC and XJT. They used to be the best regionals to work for.In a few years neither one will probably exist, or if they do it will only be at a much smaller scale. It's sad to see.

It's all smoke and mirrors. They upgrade and hire, but the numbers are single digits or low double digits when they do either. If they stop hiring or upgrading, then those on property might see that they are closing the doors.

If they truly wanted to hire, then they would give a bonus like almost every other airline. They would have 26 or more in a class like we used to have.

Again, its all smoke and mirrors. Just keep rearranging the deck chairs guys. It's all good.

I couldn't agree more, unless there is something else in the works that we don't know about yet. One thing that I did notice about this announcement, is that it came out of a SEC filing that Skywest did. It took our company a little bit to announce it afterwards. I'm not saying there is, or giving the company credit, but just stating that there may be something more that's not finalized yet.

I did hear that from G.W., he said they are still strongly considering the FO pay raises and other retention ideas. I've expressed to management over and over again, that the longer they wait, the deeper hole they will need to dig out of. It may come to a point to where the hole starts to fill with water and we can never recover. I personally have given the company up until the end of Feb to make an announcement before I explore making a lateral move, or going somewhere else.