Why don't you smarten up? It is the BOOGIE monster, not the boggie monster.

this sick policy would be a horrible nightmare at UPS. Keep the fight against it going please!

It's already our standard practice

OK, I provided an example of flight management substituting their judgment for the judgment of the pilot involved, and you clearly would rather use that as a tangent to chase rather than stick to the topic.

Look, squirrel.


Yeah, that squirrel. Yeah, so what?


OK, last time I'm gonna try this. Nobody cares if you call SICK early. Lucky you, you always get sick or injured well in advance of report time. Give that man a participation trophy.

Some of lesser humans get sick or injured or experience other situations which leave us unfit to fly at times much closer to report time. We should be able to call SICK whenever it occurs, even if it's minutes prior to report time. And that's what I have been talking about.

Good for United. Good for American. Good for DOL. I don't know if you've noticed, but we are none of the above.


That's not how it works, Capt Kronan. You don't get to ask those kinds of questions. Just send in Sick note, and don't miss the deadline.


Cool. I forgot you have your own deal with The Company. That stuff they put in contracts and letters of agreement and settlement agreements shouldn't bother you if you've got your own system worked out with management.

Hey, but at least we agree on one very important point.

Taking away pay for calling in sick IS pilot pushing!



Look, another squirrel. And, just as I figured, if it doesn't affect you, who cares?


Nobody cares if you call in sick early.

I'm not calling in sick on my days off unless I expect it to extend into a trip. Would you call in sick if you got sick on the first day of your vacation? Oh, wait, never mind. Please don't answer. Ignore the squirrel.






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What I meant to say was, "Some of US lesser humans ..." Proof that I'm one of the lesser ones. :)

I also meant to talk about this:
No, it's not a long history of requesting "information." Having a physician vouch that you were sick was as far as it goes. And that's as far as it should ever go. If The Company does believe you, they can remove you from trips with pay and have you pay their Aeromedical Advisor a visit.

What our CBA has a history of is The Company requiring "a pilot to provide the System Chief Pilot’s designee with a written statement from the pilot’s physician explaining his inability to perform his assigned duties because of illness or injury IF the Company has a good faith, and objective reason to question a pilot’s use or attempted use of sick leave;" There's nothing in there about a secret point system. There's nothing in there about submitting your case to The Company's Aeromedical advisor. There's nothing in there about pleading your case to the SCP's designee if you don't have a note. And there's nothing in there describing what the physician has to say, or what verbiage will not be acceptable.



PFC notices do not constitute binding CBA language.







.

Except that you have accumulated points against your sick usage even though you didn't miss any work. The next time you get a cold, a sick note may be required.
Maybe that's why guys wait until the day before a trip to call in sick if they actually felt bad a couple days prior.:cool:

You really are a piece of work, there, Tony. You try to get people to believe the people you are debating can't stay on task and get distracted by tangents (squirrel), so therefore their arguments are null and void. Ad hominem. I, too, wonder why Kronan went on some tangent about jumpseat duty time in his reply to you. That's crazy, right?!

Oh... he was responding to your four paragraphs talking about jumpseat usage and duty time and pilot judgement.

There goes Kronan chasing another squirrel when responding to your post. I wish he would learn to stay on task, amirite? Where did this squirrel come from, now?

I get it; that's your M.O. You post these manifestos and release a scurry of squirrels into the topic and admonish people to stop being distracted by your squirrels and stay on task.

:rolleyes:

Ad hominem...

Ad hominem...

You know that's not what's happening. They are not taking pay away for calling in sick. I just called in sick and I didn't lose any pay.

False dilemma...

And the way I read it, that's exactly what RF's FCIF said.

There have been many posts on here with pilots saying they are just going to go to their doctor and have a note saying that they were seen in the office. There were even pilots posting links on this board to websites where you can get doctors' notes over the internet without being seen in an office.

You yourself pointed out that the CBA (for as long as I can remember) has had the "explaining his inability to perform his assigned duties" phrase. I don't think by any stretch "Pilot X was seen in my office on Thursday." explains an inability to perform assigned duties. But some people twist that into saying you need to give the company a detailed medical history complete with pictures, and that's also not what RF's FCIF said. "Pilot X was seen in my office for an arm injury." "Pilot X was seen in my office for a GI disorder." Broad terms, nothing specific.

It says an "objective" reason. Personally, I think the point system is better than the previous unknown "subjective" system of "we think there might be an issue." Now, I agree that we should be privy to the point system. That shouldn't be a secret and we should know what criteria we are being held to (although I can see some problems with releasing the point system as well).

Um, yes it kind of does. See above. The note has to "explain the inability to perform his assigned duties." And that's what my physician's notes will say. No more. No less.

It still is a secret point system if it isn't shown somewhere we can see it, like on the activities page of VIPs.

My case I wrote of earlier, came about because of a glitch in the system. I only actually called in sick 5 times in 37 months. I questioned RF and threw up the BS flag. I asked him to look back and tell me where "7" sick calls came from. 7 was the number he told me triggered the automated request.

It ended up, that I called in sick for 3 days of hub turns in that time period. For some reason the computer registered each day dropped as a new sick call, thus pushing my total to "7".

I expected him to say forget about the note, but he said his hands were tied, and I needed a note to avoid a letter in my file.

Now a system "glitch" has us explaining medical conditions to a slew of people, who have no right to know about our personal conditions.

period...AMERICA!:D

But it CAN happen and as statistically significant as your one experience is I don't think we've set an unbreakable precedent. I know people who have gone 3+ years being asked for a sick note every time they call - and looking at their calendars doesn't show anything that would seem "abusive" on the surface. Yet they've made someone's special watch list for whatever arbitrary, extra-CBA reason. Think those types of folks might get targeted for pay removal to "teach them a lesson"? I'm cynical enough to say that not only might THEY get targeted but also might an ever-increasing number of pilots. Despite your vast anecdotal sample to the contrary.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So many things to say, but no manifesto tonight. I'll try to come up with a sound bite. :rolleyes:

Arm injury and GI disorder are very specific, and private.

Ad hominem ... Not.






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FedEx is the Land of Special deals.
And maybe, just maybe pushing back against a threatened action by Mgt would be a good thing. Mr FC, you seem to think I should've flown, I disagree--let's see what the Feds think about me flying sick.

(or, Mr Dispatcher, you seem to think FOD of 7.1 is acceptable--I want to add another 2k so that I'm not declaring Emergency Fuel if tower sends me around if the spacing collapses)

As a Fighter Pilot-I can assure you that Arm Injuries and GI Disorders can be anything but private.
In 20+ years I was never stationed anywhere there wasn't a Squirts, or a Chunks, or similar Tacticals....
Knew one guy who dislocated his shoulder stretching just prior to take off...had to get a lift truck to get him out of the jet.

Simply say it's None of your business when Mgt calls. I will tell you that my Union told me 15 years ago that the decision was mine. And it still is.

And to another commenter, Yes if I call in well prior to actually using any SL-for all I know the system will still give me a 1. Don't know. Don't care. If nothing else, my not waiting until the last minute allows my Fellow pilots the opportunity to improve their QOL during the 7 AM chaos.

In 31 years of flying there's yet to be a time where I've been on the ground regretting a decision to not fly, but there's been a time or two when I was flying and wishing I was on the ground.

Sick note FDX
 

Anyone been asked for a note under the new system? I was requested for a note, provided one, but the company said it was insufficient. Called doctor back to get a more detailed note. Nurse said it may violate HIPPA laws and was looking into it. Now what?

Call ALPA ASAP.


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Would you mind quoting your note that was insufficient? Personal info redacted of course.

You mean a member of management with no medical training presumes to make a judgment about your fitness to fly?



Never saw that one coming.






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Called contract enforcement. Left message. Who else???????????????

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

Block Rep and other 2 Local Council Reps. They work for you.






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Have the doctor add a note asking if perhaps the manager should handle the sick calls tomorrow and the doctor should fly the plane? I would be very challenged to not keep sending in sarcastic yet relevant note updates until they either accept one or just give up.

If this is the new future then it deserves a class action law suit if the union does not stand for us

Fill out an ASAP report on why you are being harassed on a sick call. It will get the FAA involved, and that is always fun for the company.

Let me know how that works out:cool:

You really want to throw a turd in the companies punch bowl?? Have you or your spouse get in contact with your district US Congressman. Advise your representative of the companies shenanigans and its direct conflict with the regulations on fitness to fly. US Reps and their staff usually have plenty of time on their hands to come to the aid of one of their constituents. Plus election are alway just right around the corner.

Just be prepared to outbid them:

FedEx Corp: All Recipients | OpenSecrets

Truth be told ... I think that ALPA is one of the largest PAC's in the country. They might be inclined to contact their FAA POCs for clarification?

I've had good luck solving "big gub'ment" issues by contacting my Congressman (and when my email got hacked recently I had 3 different folks from my Congressman's office call to make sure I was OK).

MM

:eek:

ALPA settled with FDX on the sick leave grievance, current policy is the result. You want the PAC to work against the union?

Yes. And anyone else that will fix this abortion.

There's only one group to fix this. It's us. Fdx will NEVER listen or acquiesce to the union.

I'm curious as well.

No - they want the whole union to work FOR THEM.

In the "settlement", ALPA still did not get the specifics on what formula/algorithm/ criteria they are using to request you provide a note.

Ask your ALPA reps ---they still don't know how it's done...just that it's been dialed back

Of course, that's true....until sometime in the future, when it isn't.

I agree there's a third party with a vested interest here --- the FAA

ALPA needs to bring them in the loop on this --- it is defintely a safety issue!

Rocco,

You may not want to stand up for yourself or the rest of the crew force, but for the rest of us, an ASAP is the most important thing we can do to fix this problem.

We are required to complete an LMS this quarter, that stipulates all the reasons we must call in sick. Then the company pushes us to not follow the requirements.

It's time to collectively pull up our big boy (girl) pants, fill out the required safety violation report, and move on.

Based on his post history, Rocco is a UPS pilot.

Thanks, I guess I don't spend enough time on this board.

I still think an ASAP is the way to go.:)

I dont agree with the sick use policy your company seems to be enforcing. I agree with you on that.

I'm not sure how your ERC will respond to an ASAP report over sick calls. That is all I was saying.

Two of the three parties on the ERC should welcome it

Here's the programs stated purpose direct from the FAA website:

"The goal of the Aviation Safety Action Program (ASAP) is to enhance aviation safety through the prevention of accidents and incidents.

Its focus is to encourage voluntary reporting of safety issues and events that come to the attention of employees of certain certificate holders.

To encourage an employee to voluntarily report safety issues even though they may involve an alleged violation of Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations (14 CFR), enforcement-related incentives have been designed into the program.

An ASAP is based on a safety partnership that will include the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) and the certificate holder, and may include any third party such as the employee's labor organization."

I understand how the ASAP program works I believe. Your FAA representative would be the wild card here.

Like I said. I don't agree with your companies sick policy. It runs counter to the intent of such a policy.

Settled Law allows employers to request documentation for sick leave.

Our contract has had verbiage allowing Mgt to request documentation for sick leave under certain circumstances (and every use of Disability)

Over the past 3 years, I've used about 25 hours a year, with no note requested since the change of administration (prior to the SL settlement)

During the rein of terror (2013), I submitted 4 notes. Wound up staying sick an extra 4 days during peak until I could get into my Doc's office to ask him to generate a note--oh well.

None of Managements actions have altered how I utilize my sick leave. If I don't feel capable of safely flying the trip because of a health issue, then I call in sick.

Maybe next contract we should advocate for PTO instead of SL. But I don't know how that would impact the excess disability tax deferred payments many people take advantage of.

Maybe a mix of PTO and SL, with the requirement that PTO can't be utilized during certain periods of time without FC approval

We should get holiday pay as well.

The junior guys that have to work on holidays should be fairly compensated.

Of course, then holidays might go more senior...

Teachers get personal leave days, and we should as well.

Trigg,

Just curious how this turned out? Did the Company ever accept your sick note?

Got the letter with a sufficient describition of medical care for the PAC folks. Insite closed