Fedex Pilots proposed retirement plan
11-02-2017, 02:43 AM
#421
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 44
Originally Posted by PurpleToolBox
Why would anyone want to come to FedEx now?
Why would anyone put up with difficult schedules for second rate pay?
Why would anyone put up with difficult schedules for second rate pay?
11-02-2017, 02:58 AM
#422
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,820
Originally Posted by PurpleToolBox
2. New jumpseat rules put people deadheading when they have a company paid ticket above jumpseaters commuting to and from work.
11-02-2017, 05:13 AM
#423
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 980
Originally Posted by PurpleToolBox
Why would anyone want to come to FedEx now?
1. FedEx pilots are now at the bottom of the hourly pay scale. Worse, our contract is so long, other airlines will have at least two contract negotiation periods before we even start openers for our next contract.
2. New jumpseat rules put people deadheading when they have a company paid ticket above jumpseaters commuting to and from work.
3. The union is about to kill the A-plan outside of formal negotiations which is probably our only chance or bargaining chip for the next contract.
4. Our B-fund is half of what the majors are paying.
5. If you're young, the value of the A-fund will be half of what it is or it will most likely not be available to you.
6. The union is falling apart and is not representing the members. This last contract is a perfect example of what we didn't want.
Why would anyone put up with difficult schedules for second rate pay?
1. FedEx pilots are now at the bottom of the hourly pay scale. Worse, our contract is so long, other airlines will have at least two contract negotiation periods before we even start openers for our next contract.
2. New jumpseat rules put people deadheading when they have a company paid ticket above jumpseaters commuting to and from work.
3. The union is about to kill the A-plan outside of formal negotiations which is probably our only chance or bargaining chip for the next contract.
4. Our B-fund is half of what the majors are paying.
5. If you're young, the value of the A-fund will be half of what it is or it will most likely not be available to you.
6. The union is falling apart and is not representing the members. This last contract is a perfect example of what we didn't want.
Why would anyone put up with difficult schedules for second rate pay?
https://slate.com/business/2017/10/r...-tax-cuts.html
11-02-2017, 05:35 AM
#424
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,756
^^It's going to be ugly if they try to lower the 401K contribution limits, however from this article, it looks like they are trying to force it into a Roth....which I think is a much better deal anyways. But I don't trust them in future years not to decide they're going to change the rules and tax Roth withdrawals anyways.
11-02-2017, 02:32 PM
#425
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 777 Captain in Training
Posts: 1,457
Originally Posted by pinseeker
Business J/S has always had a higher priority than staging. If you are with in three days of a trip and are going to work, why not book business? If you do, you can't be bumped by the deadheading pilot unless it is a company emergency.
11-03-2017, 03:58 AM
#426
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: Excessed WB Capt.
Posts: 1,063
Originally Posted by PurpleToolBox
Why would anyone want to come to FedEx now?
1. FedEx pilots are now at the bottom of the hourly pay scale. Worse, our contract is so long, other airlines will have at least two contract negotiation periods before we even start openers for our next contract.
2. New jumpseat rules put people deadheading when they have a company paid ticket above jumpseaters commuting to and from work.
3. The union is about to kill the A-plan outside of formal negotiations which is probably our only chance or bargaining chip for the next contract.
4. Our B-fund is half of what the majors are paying.
5. If you're young, the value of the A-fund will be half of what it is or it will most likely not be available to you.
6. The union is falling apart and is not representing the members. This last contract is a perfect example of what we didn't want.
Why would anyone put up with difficult schedules for second rate pay?
1. FedEx pilots are now at the bottom of the hourly pay scale. Worse, our contract is so long, other airlines will have at least two contract negotiation periods before we even start openers for our next contract.
2. New jumpseat rules put people deadheading when they have a company paid ticket above jumpseaters commuting to and from work.
3. The union is about to kill the A-plan outside of formal negotiations which is probably our only chance or bargaining chip for the next contract.
4. Our B-fund is half of what the majors are paying.
5. If you're young, the value of the A-fund will be half of what it is or it will most likely not be available to you.
6. The union is falling apart and is not representing the members. This last contract is a perfect example of what we didn't want.
Why would anyone put up with difficult schedules for second rate pay?
As long as they can hire Zoomie grads who flew B2s and U2s FDX management thinks they are offering a competitive package. I look at my passenger carrying friends junior schedules and trips and realize that their worse schedules are better than our average schedules. Our worst schedules don't exist in their bid pack.
11-03-2017, 06:19 AM
#427
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 100
Originally Posted by Flaps50
Right now the company is trying to figure out how to screw us like never before if we go down this path! Unbelievable to me that we would voluntarily freeze our A plan as FedEx pilots when our plan is completely solvent and tied to all the other management & other employees DB pension at this company. There's safety in numbers folks, so we're going to get out of the pool that the other 3 to 400,000 employees are in and be alone in a little pond going from a three tier retirement plan to basically a one tier plan that in rough times the company can zero in on... YGTBSM! I am losing faith in my union leadership fast!
We have yet to hear any other side to this (DC/DB) VB retirement plan other than we should do it... Really? Where are the objective viewpoints we were promised from the beginning? We already have a DC/DB pension system that is healthy... We've started a train down a road that in completely unknown to most of us as a crew force being told to trust us...??? I did that during the 2015 contact that is unfolding into a disaster IMO!
Tell your reps to go peddle their wares to some grocery bagger union and leave this train at the station; revisit increasing the A plan and or making the B plan worthy of our inflationary concerns in 2020.
We have yet to hear any other side to this (DC/DB) VB retirement plan other than we should do it... Really? Where are the objective viewpoints we were promised from the beginning? We already have a DC/DB pension system that is healthy... We've started a train down a road that in completely unknown to most of us as a crew force being told to trust us...??? I did that during the 2015 contact that is unfolding into a disaster IMO!
Tell your reps to go peddle their wares to some grocery bagger union and leave this train at the station; revisit increasing the A plan and or making the B plan worthy of our inflationary concerns in 2020.
The problem is this "train" now has momentum and is hard to stop. To stop it, the union would have to admit that they were wrong...that all of the time and money invested have not yielded a better retirement plan. Good luck getting a bunch of pilots to admit that they were wrong.
Many of the things you brought up are spot on. As I understand it, the pilot group is not the only group in the pension plan. Management is in the same (or similar) plan, correct? Why are they not scrambling to get rid of it? I guess we are "smarter" than everyone else (sarcasm).
When I came to FedEx I thought I had arrived. Never will need to dust off the resume again. Now I am not so sure. Seems like I keep getting screwed from both sides. On the one hand, I have a company that has a great business model but middle management that can't seem to make a good decision. I will just mention the entire integration of the 767 as the latest example and leave it at that. On the other hand, I have a union that sent us a contract that is already behind everyone else within 2 years of its signing and now is considering voluntarily giving away one of the only things that separates FedEx from everyone else (except UPS). I haven't been here a huge amount of time but long enough where it makes starting over difficult...and I am still tempted. If I was a newhire, I might be looking elsewhere.
The A Plan has not been improved since 1999...got it. It is dying by attrition...got it. It is too expensive to improve...got it. But $130k guaranteed for life is still a nice benefit and has a lot of bargaining power. And, it is supplemented with our B Plan that is currently negotiated to increase to 9%. The top pax airlines only offer 16%...we are more than half of that (minus the cash over the cap provision).
So, here is what you do. Every Section 6 negotiation, you increase the B Plan a little bit to offset the purchasing power the A Plan has lost since the last contract. You implement a "cash over the cap" provision (like everyone else has) so guys who hit the IRS limits don't lose money. In other words, an increased B Plan with "cash over the cap" can be used to offset the plan's decreasing value over time.
Maybe one day the A Plan will be worth so little that it will be time to freeze it but NOW IS NOT THAT TIME. $130k guaranteed is still a lot of money and will be for many years. Heck, my military pension IS adjusted yearly for inflation and is still a long way from $130k.
At the end of they day I ask a simple question...is there any other employee group in America (pilot or otherwise) that has VOLUNTARILY frozen their defined benefit plan? If so, what were the circumstances. If not...think about it!
11-03-2017, 06:34 AM
#428
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 100
Originally Posted by mempurpleflyer
The problem is this "train" now has momentum and is hard to stop. To stop it, the union would have to admit that they were wrong...that all of the time and money invested have not yielded a better retirement plan. Good luck getting a bunch of pilots to admit that they were wrong.
Many of the things you brought up are spot on. As I understand it, the pilot group is not the only group in the pension plan. Management is in the same (or similar) plan, correct? Why are they not scrambling to get rid of it? I guess we are "smarter" than everyone else (sarcasm).
When I came to FedEx I thought I had arrived. Never will need to dust off the resume again. Now I am not so sure. Seems like I keep getting screwed from both sides. On the one hand, I have a company that has a great business model but middle management that can't seem to make a good decision. I will just mention the entire integration of the 767 as the latest example and leave it at that. On the other hand, I have a union that sent us a contract that is already behind everyone else within 2 years of its signing and now is considering voluntarily giving away one of the only things that separates FedEx from everyone else (except UPS). I haven't been here a huge amount of time but long enough where it makes starting over difficult...and I am still tempted. If I was a newhire, I might be looking elsewhere.
The A Plan has not been improved since 1999...got it. It is dying by attrition...got it. It is too expensive to improve...got it. But $130k guaranteed for life is still a nice benefit and has a lot of bargaining power. And, it is supplemented with our B Plan that is currently negotiated to increase to 9%. The top pax airlines only offer 16%...we are more than half of that (minus the cash over the cap provision).
So, here is what you do. Every Section 6 negotiation, you increase the B Plan a little bit to offset the purchasing power the A Plan has lost since the last contract. You implement a "cash over the cap" provision (like everyone else has) so guys who hit the IRS limits don't lose money. In other words, an increased B Plan with "cash over the cap" can be used to offset the plan's decreasing value over time.
Maybe one day the A Plan will be worth so little that it will be time to freeze it but NOW IS NOT THAT TIME. $130k guaranteed is still a lot of money and will be for many years. Heck, my military pension IS adjusted yearly for inflation and is still a long way from $130k.
At the end of they day I ask a simple question...is there any other employee group in America (pilot or otherwise) that has VOLUNTARILY frozen their defined benefit plan? If so, what were the circumstances. If not...think about it!
Many of the things you brought up are spot on. As I understand it, the pilot group is not the only group in the pension plan. Management is in the same (or similar) plan, correct? Why are they not scrambling to get rid of it? I guess we are "smarter" than everyone else (sarcasm).
When I came to FedEx I thought I had arrived. Never will need to dust off the resume again. Now I am not so sure. Seems like I keep getting screwed from both sides. On the one hand, I have a company that has a great business model but middle management that can't seem to make a good decision. I will just mention the entire integration of the 767 as the latest example and leave it at that. On the other hand, I have a union that sent us a contract that is already behind everyone else within 2 years of its signing and now is considering voluntarily giving away one of the only things that separates FedEx from everyone else (except UPS). I haven't been here a huge amount of time but long enough where it makes starting over difficult...and I am still tempted. If I was a newhire, I might be looking elsewhere.
The A Plan has not been improved since 1999...got it. It is dying by attrition...got it. It is too expensive to improve...got it. But $130k guaranteed for life is still a nice benefit and has a lot of bargaining power. And, it is supplemented with our B Plan that is currently negotiated to increase to 9%. The top pax airlines only offer 16%...we are more than half of that (minus the cash over the cap provision).
So, here is what you do. Every Section 6 negotiation, you increase the B Plan a little bit to offset the purchasing power the A Plan has lost since the last contract. You implement a "cash over the cap" provision (like everyone else has) so guys who hit the IRS limits don't lose money. In other words, an increased B Plan with "cash over the cap" can be used to offset the plan's decreasing value over time.
Maybe one day the A Plan will be worth so little that it will be time to freeze it but NOW IS NOT THAT TIME. $130k guaranteed is still a lot of money and will be for many years. Heck, my military pension IS adjusted yearly for inflation and is still a long way from $130k.
At the end of they day I ask a simple question...is there any other employee group in America (pilot or otherwise) that has VOLUNTARILY frozen their defined benefit plan? If so, what were the circumstances. If not...think about it!
Additionally, could it be that this agenda is being pushed by senior pilots who already have maxed out the A Plan benefit? If you have already achieved your $130k benefit, of course you don't care if the plan is frozen.
If you are a newhire, you might care but don't have any "skin in the game" yet.
It is the guys in the middle that will suffer. Is this new plan going to "buy up" these guys in the middle to account for the lost A Plan guaranteed benefit?
11-03-2017, 07:38 AM
#429
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2005
Posts: 1,273
Originally Posted by PurpleToolBox
Worse, our contract is so long, other airlines will have at least two contract negotiation periods before we even start openers for our next contract.
Attachment 3403
Last edited by Sluggo_63; 11-22-2020 at 02:45 PM.
11-03-2017, 08:53 AM
#430
Proponent of Hysteria
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: 3B
Posts: 1,052
I hope the members of the MEC are prepared to be sued personally by the many us who will get screwed if this happens. ALPA has a fiduciary duty to all of the members, not just those with a maxed out high 5 and no other way to increase their already very generous retirement without ****ing everybody else over. Its Age 60 all over again, another self inflicted wound.
Unbelievable.
Unbelievable.
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