Why I chose FedEX
 

Why I chose FedEx

I am a former military aviator and current FedEx Captain. This is an Op-Ed to assist some of you out there, mostly military pilots but civilian as well, who are trying to decide where you want to go to begin your airline career.

My Father was a Marine aviator who flew F-8s over Cuba during the Cuban Missile crisis and two tours in Vietnam. When he got out after his second Nam tour, he took a job at Northwest Airlines and began a 25-30 year airline career where he was a Captain and Standard Check Airman on the 727, 707, DC-10, and 747-400. He loved Northwest until the day he died. He always said he loved coming to work every day he was there and he felt he flew with the best men and women aviators in the world.

After my military active duty career I joined the Guard and started to look at an airline career of my own. It seemed only natural that I would follow my family’s footsteps to a career at Northwest. A company my Father dearly loved. However, when I was faced with the decision of choosing between offers from both Northwest and FedEx, my Father advised me, “Take the FedEx job. Northwest no longer wants pilots like you. FedEx appreciates aviators more and you will enjoy your career there much better.” Needless to say I was shocked. But he was right. I have loved coming to work every day here at FedEx. I work for the best run company in the world at the top corporate level and I love the men and women I fly with. But what had happened at Northwest that my father didn’t want me to come there?

In the early 90’s, Northwest had experimented with removing the pilot leadership of their hiring process. They created a personality test based upon a NASA study of military and civilian aviators. The test itself was quite accurate and valued the training and decision making that most military aviators were brought up under. But then Northwest removed their own pilots completely from the hiring process, the lawyers and the HR people took over. They modified the test to correlate with what they believed an airline pilot should look like. All of a sudden whispers started among the crew force. “Did you hear that this guy failed the test?” “Did you hear this guy did not even get an interview?” “Who the hell are we hiring now?” Then the training product started showing up on the line. The LCAs were pulling their hair out. It wasn’t necessarily line check busts; rather it was that the majority of new hires were substandard in their performance and line Captains were starting to gripe about Northwest’s training program. So one of the Standards Mangers got a hold of the personality test and issued it to all the Standard Check Airman across all the fleets. The results were shocking. My Dad along with 92.6% of the SCAs at Northwest failed the test. They were the backbone of the Training Department, but they would not have been able to be hired at that moment. Needless to say, uproar ensued and after a long struggle, the pilot group was eventually able to force the lawyers and the HR people back to the sidelines and regain control of THEIR hiring process. But for me, at least in the mid 90’s, Northwest didn’t want pilots like me.

Now here I am at FedEx. And unfortunately history is repeating itself and I am experiencing the same cultural change at the tail end of my career as my father experienced in his at Northwest. Our company has removed the pilot leadership of OUR pilot hiring process. It started similarly with bringing in outside consultants to create a personality test and score pilot accomplishments. And similarly, the test and scoring initially was fairly accurate and the scoring valued things like Academy graduate, instructor and evaluator experience in both civilian and military backgrounds, etc. But then the pilot hiring process was completely taken over by our lawyers and HR people and is now totally devoid of pilot input. They have created a closed-door process that values what they believe an airline pilot should look like. Sponsorship and Pilot Recommendations are gone completely. They are replaced by a Pilot Endorsement that we can only use once every ten years and are such a joke that we believe it may actually score against you if any of our current classes are reflective of its importance. I know what you are thinking. That is crazy. It would be like a NFL team giving their Legal department the complete authority and responsibility to draft their football team while locking out of the room their GM and Head Coach. What the hell do lawyers know about evaluating good football players much less good aviators? But you have to understand. We are undergoing a cultural change. It is no longer OUR hiring process. FedEx no longer wants pilots like me nor do they want me to recruit pilots like me to come here.

So yes, the whispers and rumors are true. If you are a current or former military aviator, FedEx does not value your experience or competency. They really do not want you here. There is a reason why Delta, Southwest, United and American have given you calls within weeks to two months of submitting an application for an interview and you are now on 9 months or more, even with one or two PEs, without hearing anything from FedEx. Yes, it is true that people with less experience, but not a military background and no PEs are getting calls for interviews in 2-4 months or earlier. Yes, there is a reason why outstanding individuals that do get called with leadership and aviation skills coming out their ears are failing the HR interview and Legal department test and not getting hired here. Delta, Southwest, etc. appreciates aviators more and it appears its just like my Dad told me, “you will enjoy your career there much better.”

So what is my recommendation to you? Let me say it this way. I have a child learning to fly and showing an interest in making a career out of aviation. He also wants to serve. I can only hope he is successful enough in this endeavor that the active duty or a Guard/Reserve Unit will acknowledge his bloodlines and take a chance on him for a pilot training slot. Then when it is time for him to possibly move on to an airline career, I can honestly say it would be a proud moment for me if he became a legacy hire here at FedEx. However it would be against my best advice to him today if he had another choice to begin his airline career. If I have raised him properly to be a true aviator, then I know barring a future cultural correction like what eventually happened at Northwest, he is not wanted here at FedEx. I do not want him to come to a place that does not appreciate his profession and him as an aviator. So my advice to him will be the same as my Dad’s advice was to me for the same reasons. I will love FedEx until the day I die. It has been such a pleasure working here and providing for my family. I have never regretted taking the advice of my Father and accepting FedEx’s offer to come work for them and be a member of this truly outstanding crew force. The men and women I fly with are simply the best aviators in the world. But the FedEx AOD culture now is no longer the same FedEx AOD culture as when I was hired. They don’t want people like me anymore.

FedEx currently appreciates my competency as an aviator. They just don’t want anymore like me coming through the door. Am I sad that I could not get hired here by FedEx today? Yes. Am I mad? No. It simply is what is. Maybe before my son comes of age, FedEx will have gone through a correction like Northwest did right before the end of that airline and their merger with Delta. And maybe then they will understand the value of pilot leadership in the hiring process. Maybe our crew force will get THEIR hiring process back one day. In the meantime I am, and I always will be, very appreciative of FedEx and all it has given my family and me. I cannot wait to go to work tomorrow. So yes, I believe you will probably like it here too and if you put in your application here we will do what we can for you. But I will give you the same wise advice my Father gave me, “Delta, Southwest etc. appreciates aviators more and you will undoubtedly enjoy your career there much better.” Put your energies in getting hired where you are valued and appreciated. If you are a military aviator, the rumors and the perceptions are true. FedEx supports our troops, our men and women in uniform. They just don’t want you working here or they would value you more.

Sincerely,
A Proud FedEx Captain

I appreciate you taking the time to post your thoughts, truly.

However, Delta has the same test we take. United has the Hogan Personality Assessment. Southwest no longer has a back door policy of walking into the CP’s office with a good friend. 50%+ of AA’s hiring is from flows via wholly-owned regionals. Their interviews are all largely HR based now as well. In fact, my SBI/panel interview here was more “piloty, broohahah, experience” than anywhere else I’ve interviewed.

I would disagree that FedEx is the only airline that doesn’t value your experience. I came here from one of the big 3 majors. When I was in indoc the military guys were all asking the instructors and pilot recruiters how they could get their buds a call and that they’ve had their apps on file for years without a call. Meanwhile, 26 year old RJ FO’s with 2500TT were sitting next to us. Delta just hired a 23(!!!!) year old RJ FO. I’m sure there are a plethora of fine military aviators salivating over a job there as well.

Same story everywhere else.

If it's true that FedEx is now leery of hiring military pilots, there must be a reason. I wonder if it's the fact that so many people stay in the reserves or the guard after they are hired. I am prior military and obviously have nothing against military pilots. However, if I was an employer and had my choice of qualified people who are generally 100% available to work, and others who might knock out trips every month (including during peak), and be deployed for months at a time, whom would I hire? The person who is going to be full time (to the best of my knowledge). Just a thought about why they might be not as interested in the military types.

I remember in the nineties, FedEx hired many Delta and AA furloughed pilots who went back when recalled. It took them some time to hire furloughees again, since they'd been burned so badly.

I agree 100%.

Look at the most recent system bid award.

The company does not want to hire an individual, have them go on MLOA for 2 years, and come back with an award to the left seat of one of their airplanes with no system experience.

Had approx 10 of 12 interviewees hired from my previous squadron, all non retirees. Over the past 10 years, only 4 offers, just to interview, from the same 'widget factory' and all 4 were retirees. Not one person who separated was even offered an interview.

Coincidence, I think not.

Why did you create 3 exact threads?

Of course there is a reason and I doubt it has anything to do with "not valuing what a military aviator brings to the company". Could it be that too many military pilots, who are continuing their service in the guard/reserves, are abusing their ability to drop mil leave?

Once again, we are our own worst enemy.

Nothing against military guys and gals, respect the service for us. However those 2500 hr RJ guys are working in the system we operate in everday and probably doing wing low cross wind landings to boot. Just Saying

I really doubt this particular concern is driving the current hiring dynamic. FedEx may have decided to turn their nose up at the part time military guys, but I seriously doubt it's because they're worried about what they might be able to hold on a system bid.

There are a variety of scenarios that would create a similar circumstance and don't involve someone out on mil leave. How about someone hired into the right seat of the 777. They may spend two years getting one landing a month if they're lucky, sitting reserve and going to the sim every 90 days or RFOing 14 hours at a pop and never spend a single moment flying domestic hub-turns. Are they going to be any more ready to jump into the left seat of a 757 than someone just getting back from mil leave? You seem to be discounting the instructors, check airmen and FAA designees. There are enough "filters" in the upgrade process to ensure the Captains release to the line are capable of doing the job.

No one wants to struggle in training and I think it's unlikely too many folks would attempt an upgrade without any practical experience. However, if someone did, I feel pretty confident the training standards would keep them out of the left seat if they weren't ready. It's not like we haven't all heard of someone who made the attempt and was unsuccessful.

:confused: What does this even mean?

Completely agree, 100%. I was one of them. All civilian here. However, 2500TT with zero 121 TPIC and sitting in class at UAL/DAL... I don’t know if I’m entirely onboard with that. My 2000 hours TPIC as an RJ captain and eventually LCA, was invaluable.

Guys lose money after year two if they drop FDX trips for mil. As a guy who flies with many new guys, I'd say it's 60-40 mil-civ, with many already having a mixed back ground, i.e. FDX isn't their first rodeo. Pretty sure there is no boogeyman pulling the strings to keep mil guys out.

What, exactly, are you not onboard with? :confused:

Many of the AOA Types have not done a winglow crosswond landing in many years. These are the types of crosswind landings we do. I did not realize the C17 does not also past a certain flap setting, untill I was working with a C17 guy on his crosswind landings.

multiple threads ? venting ? axe to grind ?

I think having some TPIC, when there military or civilian is an invaluable experience. I’ve alwags thought people hired at the majors without it missed out on a great opportunity for professsional growth.

Your statement specified 121 TPIC. So, you made it sound like you had some issue with a mil guy with plenty of PIC time just not 121 PIC sitting in a UAL/DAL class.

I figured it was something like that. Ok, pardon me while a scoff a little. This "system" we all operate in now is hardly as challenging as you're making it out to be.

As far as cross-wind landings? We're talking basic flight control inputs. You really think it's valid to turn away someone with loads of experience because they lack recency in something as basic as a cross-wind landing? I seriously doubt the majority of guys coming here from whatever background are going to find a basic cross-wind landing that difficult. You want to give me an exception to the rule story about some "AOA Type" that had a tough time with cross-winds in a heavy transport category aircraft? Whatever. I'm sure we can find an RJ guy who struggled with that or something else. I know a few of the one's I've flown with recently could use some remedial radio training. But there's the 5% in every group.

Plenty of "value" in a mix of new hires from various prior walks of aviation life.

Oh no. I meant a civilian with 2500TT and no TPIC.

Big difference. Sorry for the confusion.

I never said that the guy was using 2500 hr RJ guys being hired as a bad thing over a few mil guys. Think what ever you want. Just pointing out the RJ guys and gals are not second tier. When our job becomes air to air combat or low attitude support for ground troops then mil rules but that is not our job. I have trained both mil and civies who had problems with crosswind landings.

I'm not aware that anyone has been saying this here or any other recent thread. But you clearly came here with an agenda and felt it was important to point out that while you respect mil pilot's service, our "system" and that pesky cross-wind really should be handled by the likes of Captain RJ. :rolleyes: ... Just sayin'....

Oh please. :eek: Our job is get stuff safely from A to B. Most of the skills required to do that job are immediately transferable from any military pilot regardless of what he used to do in his old life. The other small fraction is what training and indoc are for.

So.... your point is what? Everyone once in a while we hire a ham fist who probably should have found another line of work? Again - probably members of the 5% club.

You do recall, not too long ago, new hire classes were split up to specifically target previous heavy, glass or AOA experienced pilots to start in the MD?

Yes, in the past but not now.

Like say..... non-RJ mil fighter, heavy and ACMI drivers? But what if there’s a cross-wind? :D

I believe the “system” he previously referred to was more in reference to the general civilian aviation environment and possibly the FedEx system rather than something aircraft specific like pairing potentially compatible pilots with the MD.

Sorry hit a nerve. You are right i’ll just going back to lurking. BTW I did link the post that referenced my comment. I did not say mil is worse or better just different than Flag ops.

No need to go back to lurking. You know APC, you say something that strikes someone wrong and you get attacked from all corners. And then you change the subject and it ends......:cool:

So anyone have any other ideas about why FedEx appears reluctant to hire military pilots now? They used to hire mostly prior military.

Hired last year and my class was still 80% Military backgrounds? :rolleyes:

I really don’t think that much has changed in that regard. Just might not be as easy to get your buddies hired, since “Legal”took over our Hiring Department.

I've been here at FedEx just over a year and a half. I don't have the breadth of FedEx experience that the original poster has, so can only give my perspective on this as a new guy. I was hired in 2016 with a Guard background flying fighters with zero 121 experience. Yes the lawyers have taken over. Happened before I got hired, little worse now with elimination of recommendations. Over 60% of my class were mil guys. After you're selected for an interview though it's all pilots. I never had an HR person interview me. HR simply welcomed me to the building then took me to a room to wait for a pilot to come get me (maybe that has changed). 3 pilots ran the SBI, and 2 old school pilots ran the interview. Only a serial killer would fail the personality test---"Are you superior to others", "sometimes I hit things when angry (t/f)" The job knowledge test on the other hand was a ***** for a fighter guy!! Definitely designed for heavy pilots--not just civ dudes. Some mil guys aren't getting the call and that's true. I know two good dudes that Delta called first, and one that didn't pass the interview. I also know plenty of others that got the call first (or at the same time), and passed the interview. The civ new hires that I've met are awesome dudes in general and seem like true pilots that love aviation...not just FMS babies (though as an FO I've never actually flown with them, but that's my ground perception). Maybe he means fighter pilots in place of mil dudes? There were a good percentage of fighter guys still active in the guard/reserve in my class as well. Overall, he is right that we're not hiring as many mil dudes, but I don't think it's a conspiracy (and I love a conspiracy, and still wear my tin foil hat quite often). I just think there are a lot of great 121 folks available out there. As a company why wouldn't you hire them alongside your mil guys? You get a good mix of 121 experience and leadership, combined with the military mission focus and leadership. There are only so many slots available, can't hire all at once.

I’m not sure what exactly is being argued? Is it “who” or is it “when”? I’m assuming all this discussion began the other day when the gentleman posted about FedEx was his number one airline, but Delta offered the job first. After being at Delta for about a year, he’s past V1 and not looking back. WallyF4 then posted his take on FDX hiring practices over the last 14 months.

I was hired in 2017. In my class, we had 70% with a military background. They still like Zoomies; we had four in our class. The majority were heavy guys by about a two to one heavy to fighter ratio.

These numbers are fairly typical for FDX. From what I understand, the other carriers are more of a fifty/fifty split. So I don’t really follow WF4’s intent. Is it just that those separating/retiring are not holding immediate class dates?

If that’s the case, there’s an easy explanation. It’s incredibly competitive right now. Every single legacy/major/cargo airline is hiring full throttle right now. That’s 3500 pilots just for the Big 4 in 2018. With FedEx only having five hundred and 50-70% of that being Mil, we’re talking 250 to 350 spots. Some guys just aren’t going to get in right away.

If it comes to appreciating “aviators”, I think FDX absolutely does. Now, from the way WF4 was saying it, I think he equates aviator with military. But if it also means experience, then FedEx values it more than UAL and DAL to be sure. People that get into class at those carriers don’t even qualify for a FDX interview on a regular basis. Everyone in my class had a leadership background, highly degreed, highly qualified, with incredible levels of experience. At UAL and DAL, those requisites can be replaced with a Legacy parent or volunteering at job fairs/recruiting. I was very appreciative that FDX gave a nod to experience over the old school back doors.

I hope that everyone that deserves a chance, gets a chance. But with competition at an all time high, it may take some time to get there.

I've heard they have flipped the preferences for MD-11 picks from mil tac jet types to civ because many mil guys are dropping much of their first year for reserve duty and management now feels the civ background types will fly more FedEx the first year.

Maybe they want to hire 30 year olds because they get 5 or 10 free pension years from them.

Well, that would make sense. If they have to hire an extra pilot for every four non-retired military pilots they hire (just a random number) and they have other options, why hire them at all?

Because once they hit the 2-3 year mark they tend to disengage from mil and are a great source for covering extra flying... mission oriented, type A, etc. .. certainly a generalization but based on what I've seen here.

Ya know.....‘Merica?

Hey, I'm not saying this from my perspective, but from what I contemplate is the companies possible one. If there is actually a large decline in non-retired military pilots being called to interview, there's a reason. A decade plus of military training and experience should warrant a call.

It absolutely should! So they should get in line with the other thousands of military and civilian guys with a decade plus of training and experience.

To follow the law. And get propaganda rights on "supporting our veterans".
I'm always fascinated how corporate managements (including airlines) brag about supporting the "military" and then give service members grief for serving.

"The purposes of the Uniformed Services Employment and Reemployment Rights Act (USERRA) are: to encourage
non-career service in the uniformed services by eliminating or minimizing the disadvantages to civilian careers
and employment which can result from such service; to minimize the disruption to the lives of persons performing
service in the uniformed services as well as to their employers, their fellow employees, and their communities, by
providing for the prompt reemployment of such persons upon their completion of such service; and to prohibit
discrimination against persons because of their service in the uniformed services. It is the sense of Congress that the
Federal Government should be a model employer in carrying out the provisions of USERRA.
38 U.S.C. § 4301, Purposes and Sense of Congress"

Sounds like there are just more folks separating from the Military than FedEx can Interview and Hire. Classes are still 80% Military. It’s just that FedEx hires significantly fewer Pilots in general than the Big 3 and Southwest. I don’t see the above as a preference to hire Civilian over Military. Like I said still 80% Military in the classes from what I’ve seen.

My buddy just started class at purple this month and said there were only 4 mil guys out of 20 total. FYI

One set of numbers
 

FedEx has had a good reputation for hiring military veterans in the past. No issue. Also, I have no interest in starting some contest with the valuable members of the FedEx team with pure civilian backgrounds. We are one team. However, I will add one data point to the discussion: There have been about 40 guys from my previous military community consistently applying to FedEx over the past five years. Folks enter and exit that list, but the number stays at about 40. In 2016, FedEx hired 18 of these folks. In 2017, FedEx only hired 3. That's an 84% decrease in this small sample - significant. In each year, FedEx hired approx 400 total new hires. Meanwhile 28 members of this list were hired by Delta and American, etc in 2017. They were very motivated to come to FedEx (first choice), but that call never came. The applicants from my former community are exceptional aviators with great leadership backgrounds...Wing Commanders, instructors, evaluators, test experience, etc. Most have a PE. Some have 2 PE's. Most are retiring, with no guard or reserve concerns. I have received several e-mails and calls asking, "What's up with HR at FedEx?" I have no answers for them, but something is up. From my admittedly small sample size, there does seem to be a poor trend developing lately.